Discussion:
AMORC & HSL Confessio the 5 'secret' monographs
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7 minutes a day
2007-09-10 18:14:32 UTC
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Hello All,

In the higher AMORC degrees (11th) a set of five monographs are sent
to the member that they are alloowed to keep for only 5 weeks.They
have to return these monographs before the normal miailing is resumed.
The 5 in question deal mainly with H.Spencer-Lewis' perosnal
illumination and describe his very strange journye to a physical realm
that has unusual anumals and plants that HSL had not seem beofre. He
also states that the Sun seemed very different!

Can anyone suggest what was so special or controversal about these
particular discourses that they warrented only being lent to the
student for a short period of time? What was HSL implying in his
description of this place?

BTW, I have been a very long time member of AMORC passing thropugh the
12 degrees and reaching into the higher plane degrees!

Any insights and discussion would be welcome.


Sincerly and fraternally,

D
Knows ALL
2007-09-19 01:40:05 UTC
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I didn't return those monographs and still continued to receive the rest
normally. Anytime AMORC stated stuff like that, it was a voluntary
thing to follow. As long as you paid your dues the regular mailings
would continue. That's all.

I lost those monographs a long time ago and I don't even remember if I
read them.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Post by 7 minutes a day
Hello All,
In the higher AMORC degrees (11th) a set of five monographs are sent
to the member that they are alloowed to keep for only 5 weeks.They
have to return these monographs before the normal miailing is resumed.
The 5 in question deal mainly with H.Spencer-Lewis' perosnal
illumination and describe his very strange journye to a physical realm
that has unusual anumals and plants that HSL had not seem beofre. He
also states that the Sun seemed very different!
Can anyone suggest what was so special or controversal about these
particular discourses that they warrented only being lent to the
student for a short period of time? What was HSL implying in his
description of this place?
BTW, I have been a very long time member of AMORC passing thropugh the
12 degrees and reaching into the higher plane degrees!
Any insights and discussion would be welcome.
Sincerly and fraternally,
D
bizon586@yahoo.com
2007-09-24 21:10:17 UTC
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Post by 7 minutes a day
Hello All,
In the higher AMORC degrees (11th) a set of five monographs are sent
to the member that they are alloowed to keep for only 5 weeks.They
have to return these monographs before the normal miailing is resumed.
The 5 in question deal mainly with H.Spencer-Lewis' perosnal
illumination and describe his very strange journye to a physical realm
that has unusual anumals and plants that HSL had not seem beofre. He
also states that the Sun seemed very different!
I never received these "monographs" may be you got them because you
are psychically illuminated.And the stuff about you being in the
planes.......I will just hold my thoughts on that one.

Emmanuel
Post by 7 minutes a day
Can anyone suggest what was so special or controversal about these
particular discourses that they warrented only being lent to the
student for a short period of time? What was HSL implying in his
description of this place?
BTW, I have been a very long time member of AMORC passing thropugh the
12 degrees and reaching into the higher plane degrees!
Any insights and discussion would be welcome.
Sincerly and fraternally,
D
7 minutes a day
2007-09-25 14:39:54 UTC
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Post by ***@yahoo.com
Post by 7 minutes a day
Hello All,
In the higher AMORC degrees (11th) a set of five monographs are sent
to the member that they are alloowed to keep for only 5 weeks.They
have to return these monographs before the normal miailing is resumed.
The 5 in question deal mainly with H.Spencer-Lewis' perosnal
illumination and describe his very strange journye to a physical realm
that has unusual anumals and plants that HSL had not seem beofre. He
also states that the Sun seemed very different!
I never received these "monographs" may be you got them because you
are psychically illuminated.And the stuff about you being in the
planes.......I will just hold my thoughts on that one.
Emmanuel
Post by 7 minutes a day
Can anyone suggest what was so special or controversal about these
particular discourses that they warrented only being lent to the
student for a short period of time? What was HSL implying in his
description of this place?
BTW, I have been a very long time member of AMORC passing thropugh the
12 degrees and reaching into the higher plane degrees!
Any insights and discussion would be welcome.
Sincerly and fraternally,
D
Alternativly, after the re-write of the early 1990's maybe they just
dropped those particular monographs! I really don't think they were
sent to specific members that were considered 'illuminated' or
particularly psychic. Interesting idea though, as the original R+C
manual stated that sometimes members did indeed recieve special
studies.
No Yo
2007-09-30 00:11:37 UTC
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Post by 7 minutes a day
Alternativly, after the re-write of the early 1990's maybe they just
dropped those particular monographs! I really don't think they were
sent to specific members that were considered 'illuminated' or
particularly psychic. Interesting idea though, as the original R+C
manual stated that sometimes members did indeed recieve special
studies.
Of course these monographs were not sent to anyone individually for any
reason.

AMORC was and still is a mass-production, automated enterprise, and only
computer programs send the same monographs at the appropriate time, to
everybody that pays their dues.

Although in all fairness, I once called a 'class master' on the phone
and he took the call and answered my question. This must have been
decades ago, though.
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gls
2007-10-01 19:10:16 UTC
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Post by No Yo
Post by 7 minutes a day
Alternativly, after the re-write of the early 1990's maybe they just
dropped those particular monographs! I really don't think they were
sent to specific members that were considered 'illuminated' or
particularly psychic. Interesting idea though, as the original R+C
manual stated that sometimes members did indeed recieve special
studies.
Of course these monographs were not sent to anyone individually for any
reason.
The Confessio was written for and sent to The Supreme Secretary of
AMORC (1918), bro. Brassard and to bro. Binimelis. Later, they were
incorporated into the system and until 1924, were sent to the Lodges
for reading at the close of the Ninth Degree class. From 1924 to 1969
they were only sent to *some* of those in the appropriate degree and
had to be returned before the next mailing was sent out. That is, if
you didn't study and let AMORC know you were studying, you didn't get
them.
Post by No Yo
AMORC was and still is a mass-production, automated enterprise, and only
computer programs send the same monographs at the appropriate time, to
everybody that pays their dues.
From 1969 onward that would be an accurate assessment although AMORC
was never an efficient mass producing automated enterprise. I started
working there in 1980 and we were still using manual systems (index
cards) to place and track supplies and monographs. No one really
trusted the computer and it wasn't used to its potential and even when
it was used, someone always double-checked ...
Post by No Yo
Although in all fairness, I once called a 'class master' on the phone
and he took the call and answered my question. This must have been
decades ago, though.
Even though other parts of AMORC weren't using the computer to its
potential, the Instruction Department was trying to use it beyond its
potential. That is, automatic letters being sent out in response to
questions that usually had nothing to do with the question asked, or
if it did, a maddening response was generated. It's good that you
called ...

gls
No Yo
2007-10-03 23:48:51 UTC
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Post by gls
Even though other parts of AMORC weren't using the computer to its
potential, the Instruction Department was trying to use it beyond its
potential. That is, automatic letters being sent out in response to
questions that usually had nothing to do with the question asked, or
if it did, a maddening response was generated. It's good that you
called ...
And I talked to Edward Lee w/o knowing who he was then (a long time
ago). He gladly told me his name :-)

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gls
2007-10-01 18:50:16 UTC
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Hi;
Post by 7 minutes a day
Hello All,
In the higher AMORC degrees (11th) a set of five monographs are sent
to the member that they are alloowed to keep for only 5 weeks.They
have to return these monographs before the normal miailing is resumed.
Unless that was changed since 1990, the set of monographs in question
were sent out toward the end of the 12th degree. Initially, they were
seven Manifestos and two Confessios written by HSL in 1918. In the CR
+C, we send them out at the end of the 9th degree and they need not be
returned. Up until 1969 in AMORC, they did have to be returned before
mailings were resumed. But in 1969, AMORC computerized their mailings
and no one could figure out how to put a stop on mailings if they
weren't returned. Rather, they decided to use the honor system which
basically worked pretty well.
Post by 7 minutes a day
The 5 in question deal mainly with H.Spencer-Lewis' perosnal
illumination and describe his very strange journye to a physical realm
that has unusual anumals and plants that HSL had not seem beofre. He
also states that the Sun seemed very different!
I believe, with the specific references above, you are referring
mostly to "A Pilgrim's Journey to the East" published in the American
Rosae Crucis in 1916. That article can still be bought online today
and it tells an abridged story of what was later contained in the
Confessios written in 1918 for specific AMORC Rosicrucians.
Post by 7 minutes a day
Can anyone suggest what was so special or controversal about these
particular discourses that they warrented only being lent to the
student for a short period of time?
The manifestoes described his initiation in 1909 and how it was
received and the Confessios relay a very personal story about the
events during several days in his life. Initially, the writings were
for a few select people close to hsl, but were later included in the
monograph system. They were only lent for a short period of time
because they (hsl and rml) did not want the information circulating
outside of the order. Keep in mind that back then, you couldn't just
run down to a copy machine and easily duplicate them.
Post by 7 minutes a day
What was HSL implying in his
description of this place?
This experience took place in the Carmel/Monterrey california area and
he is both looking at the physical world and the subtle world at the
same time -- thus, a different, more intense quality to sunlight, etc.

<snip>

gls
Post by 7 minutes a day
Sincerly and fraternally,
D
7 minutes a day
2007-10-04 09:48:11 UTC
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Post by gls
Hi;
Post by 7 minutes a day
Hello All,
In the higher AMORC degrees (11th) a set of five monographs are sent
to the member that they are alloowed to keep for only 5 weeks.They
have to return these monographs before the normal miailing is resumed.
Unless that was changed since 1990, the set of monographs in question
were sent out toward the end of the 12th degree. Initially, they were
seven Manifestos and two Confessios written by HSL in 1918. In the CR
+C, we send them out at the end of the 9th degree and they need not be
returned. Up until 1969 in AMORC, they did have to be returned before
mailings were resumed. But in 1969, AMORC computerized their mailings
and no one could figure out how to put a stop on mailings if they
weren't returned. Rather, they decided to use the honor system which
basically worked pretty well.
Post by 7 minutes a day
The 5 in question deal mainly with H.Spencer-Lewis' perosnal
illumination and describe his very strange journye to a physical realm
that has unusual anumals and plants that HSL had not seem beofre. He
also states that the Sun seemed very different!
I believe, with the specific references above, you are referring
mostly to "A Pilgrim's Journey to the East" published in the American
Rosae Crucis in 1916. That article can still be bought online today
and it tells an abridged story of what was later contained in the
Confessios written in 1918 for specific AMORC Rosicrucians.
Post by 7 minutes a day
Can anyone suggest what was so special or controversal about these
particular discourses that they warrented only being lent to the
student for a short period of time?
The manifestoes described his initiation in 1909 and how it was
received and the Confessios relay a very personal story about the
events during several days in his life. Initially, the writings were
for a few select people close to hsl, but were later included in the
monograph system. They were only lent for a short period of time
because they (hsl and rml) did not want the information circulating
outside of the order. Keep in mind that back then, you couldn't just
run down to a copy machine and easily duplicate them.
Post by 7 minutes a day
What was HSL implying in his
description of this place?
This experience took place in the Carmel/Monterrey california area and
he is both looking at the physical world and the subtle world at the
same time -- thus, a different, more intense quality to sunlight, etc.
<snip>
gls
Post by 7 minutes a day
Sincerly and fraternally,
D
Now this is becoming a very interesting conversation. Thanks to GLS
and the others for your fascinating input.

I did wonder if HSL was talking about seeing the sun and the world in
all four dimensons instead of the usual three.

On a personal note and it is only mentioned to further the discussion,
on a few rare occassions in the past I've experienced 'consciousness
of the cosmic'. Each time physical reality seemed 'different' more
alive, much more intense. So to HSL having full blown Cosmic
Consciousness (which is what the 5 monographs seemed to be dealing
with) then physical reality must have been very different.

Fraternally,

D
MalcolmO
2007-10-05 20:34:26 UTC
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Post by gls
"A Pilgrim's Journey to the East" published in the American
Rosae Crucis in 1916. That article can still be bought online today
along with the rest of 1916

http://www.kessinger.net/searchresults-orderthebook.php?ISBN=0766106977
Julie Altswitch
2007-10-05 21:02:14 UTC
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[Subject changed from: Re: AMORC & HSL Confessio the 5 'secret'
monographs, since we moved off it]

There are some interesting titles at that link.
The two that caught my attention were:

Pseudo-Rosicrucians: Impostors And Fools
<http://www.kessinger.net/searchresults-orderthebook.php?ISBN=142869000X>

Sex Teaching In Public Places: From A Rosicrucian Viewpoint
<http://www.kessinger.net/searchresults-orderthebook.php?ISBN=142867893X>

-J
Post by MalcolmO
Post by gls
"A Pilgrim's Journey to the East" published in the American
Rosae Crucis in 1916. That article can still be bought online today
along with the rest of 1916
http://www.kessinger.net/searchresults-orderthebook.php?ISBN=0766106977
Durvad
2007-10-06 22:44:33 UTC
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I suggest you buy the Hartmann book in all. The link takes you to an
extract of the book. I DON'T KNOW WHY Kessinger does this; I know him
from the days of CompuServe in 1992-3 and he seemed like an respectable
person (also a Mason plus member of AMORC at least then).

Sell the complete book or nothing.

Durvad

----------------------------
Post by Julie Altswitch
[Subject changed from: Re: AMORC & HSL Confessio the 5 'secret'
monographs, since we moved off it]
There are some interesting titles at that link.
Pseudo-Rosicrucians: Impostors And Fools
<http://www.kessinger.net/searchresults-orderthebook.php?ISBN=142869000X>
Sex Teaching In Public Places: From A Rosicrucian Viewpoint
<http://www.kessinger.net/searchresults-orderthebook.php?ISBN=142867893X>
-J
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MalcolmO
2007-10-07 06:40:13 UTC
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Post by Durvad
I DON'T KNOW WHY Kessinger does this
Well, I can see selling a chapter or short story. Some customers will
only want that particular portion and will balk at paying for (much?)
more than they want or need. That said, $13 seems a bit steep for a
12-page article. Compare that with the prices charged for PDFs at
fromthebookshelf.com, which debuted recently with a surprisingly meagre
list of titles.
Post by Durvad
I know him from the days of CompuServe in 1992-3
Hey! I was there then. In fact, I was a sysop.
Post by Durvad
also a Mason
I'm one of those too and, having noticed the Masonic titles there,
wondered if he might be a member.
Post by Durvad
plus member of AMORC at least then
That I am not. I've just always been curious.
Durvad
2007-10-07 16:21:01 UTC
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Post by MalcolmO
Hey! I was there then. In fact, I was a sysop.
I do remember a "Malcolm" and if this is the same 'handle' that you
used, I remember you.

I STILL have CIS Manager installed with MANY threads recorded then. And
I have it all backed up too.

I just use it to refer to what I wrote (and other too) then, as a
curiosity. I was a HUGE defender of AMORC then. Too much; that's one
of the things that have changed :-)

Rilla was another Sysop remember her? I met them (her husband Ray) in
person once in Big Rapids, Michigan, Oct 1992.

What was the Forum owner's name?

And BTW, I used to be a section leader ("Esoteric Societies") If you
think you know who I am, please don't mention it here. Maybe later I
will say who I am... :-)

Ciao!

XXXXXXXXX

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Durvad
2007-10-07 16:29:21 UTC
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Post by Durvad
What was the Forum owner's name?
Neil Shapiro, I just looked in my CIS files...

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MalcolmO
2007-10-07 18:04:58 UTC
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I do remember a "Malcolm" and if this is the same 'handle' that you used, I remember you.
Well, yes, I _was_ MalcolmO@ with a sysop number that ended ,4243.
Compuserve took back that sysop account from me almost exactly a year
ago (I'd stopped doing any sysop work). The annoying thing is, that
sysop account will continue to exist and work even though I don't have
it any more. The possibility is that someone may email me at CIS, *not
have the email bounce*, and conclude that I'm ignoring them. I just sort
of have to hope that's not happening. :/
I was a HUGE defender of AMORC then.
I do remember one enthusiastic AMORC poster. In fact, I was just
thinking about him the other day. IIRC, he'd related how there's an East
Coast (MD?) lodge that is officially an AMORC lodge and officially a
Masonic Lodge.
Too much; that's one of the things that have changed :-)
I hear ya. My take on my org has changed too.
Rilla was another Sysop remember her?
Yes, that does ring a bell. One of the most active members if I recall.
What was the Forum owner's name?
I believe that was the New Age Forum and I think it was Neil Shapiro's
forum. Neil also owned the Mac forums and Masonry Forum. In fact, it was
while I was active in New Age and Masonry that Neil joined the
fraternity. After _I_ joined (just a couple years ago), I tried
returning to the CIS Masonry Forum and found it not there. :/
If you think you know who I am, please don't mention it here.
Well, if you're the one I ref'd above, I've forgotten your name! :)
IOW, your secret is safe with me (even if my memory returns).
MalcolmO
2007-10-07 06:30:26 UTC
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Post by Julie Altswitch
There are some interesting titles at that link.
Actually, there are MANY interesting titles there. I can't imagine that
I won't buy _some_ of them sometime.
bizon586@yahoo.com
2007-10-08 05:49:45 UTC
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Post by gls
Hi;
Post by 7 minutes a day
Hello All,
In the higher AMORC degrees (11th) a set of five monographs are sent
to the member that they are alloowed to keep for only 5 weeks.They
have to return these monographs before the normal miailing is resumed.
Unless that was changed since 1990, the set of monographs in question
were sent out toward the end of the 12th degree. Initially, they were
seven Manifestos and two Confessios written by HSL in 1918. In the CR
+C, we send them out at the end of the 9th degree and they need not be
returned. Up until 1969 in AMORC, they did have to be returned before
mailings were resumed. But in 1969, AMORC computerized their mailings
and no one could figure out how to put a stop on mailings if they
weren't returned. Rather, they decided to use the honor system which
basically worked pretty well.
Post by 7 minutes a day
The 5 in question deal mainly with H.Spencer-Lewis' perosnal
illumination and describe his very strange journye to a physical realm
that has unusual anumals and plants that HSL had not seem beofre. He
also states that the Sun seemed very different!
I believe, with the specific references above, you are referring
mostly to "A Pilgrim's Journey to the East" published in the American
Rosae Crucis in 1916. That article can still be bought online today
and it tells an abridged story of what was later contained in the
Confessios written in 1918 for specific AMORC Rosicrucians.
Post by 7 minutes a day
Can anyone suggest what was so special or controversal about these
particular discourses that they warrented only being lent to the
student for a short period of time?
The manifestoes described his initiation in 1909 and how it was
received and the Confessios relay a very personal story about the
events during several days in his life. Initially, the writings were
for a few select people close to hsl, but were later included in the
monograph system. They were only lent for a short period of time
because they (hsl and rml) did not want the information circulating
outside of the order. Keep in mind that back then, you couldn't just
run down to a copy machine and easily duplicate them.
Post by 7 minutes a day
What was HSL implying in his
description of this place?
This experience took place in the Carmel/Monterrey california area and
he is both looking at the physical world and the subtle world at the
same time -- thus, a different, more intense quality to sunlight, etc.
<snip>
gls
Post by 7 minutes a day
Sincerly and fraternally,
D- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Now I get what you were referring to.11th degree was mentioned and
that's why I could'nt recollect.It was actually in the 12th.

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