Discussion:
MYTHS PERPETUATED BY AMORC AND THE CONFRATERNITY OF GARY L. STEWART
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Friede
2004-06-21 18:00:12 UTC
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Myths and legends have been with us since times beyond remembering and
are likely to be with us well into the future. Most religious groups
have some sort of myths.Christianity has been surrounded by myths,
mysteries, hoax, forgeries, frauds, etc. As far as I know, the
Rosicrucian Order is not free from myths, mysteries, and even
forgeries. Our task as "walking question marks" is to expose all these
myths and forgeries to separate the chaff and straw from the pure
wheat, what's true from what's
false.
Among the myths we need to elucidate are:
1.The Great White Brotherhood, the Great White Lodge of Tibet.
2.Mrs. May Banks Stacey.
3.The AMORCUS, El Moria Ra, and other Masters.
4.Forgery of documents (charters, titles, etc.)
5.Initiation in Toulouse, Count Bellcastle-Ligne...
6.Many versions of Dr. Lewis' history of the Order.

And you can add more items to this modest list.

Pax,

FRIEDE
Charles D. Bohne
2004-06-21 19:13:36 UTC
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Post by Friede
And you can add more items to this modest list.
Pax,
FRIEDE
Why not post a canon of truth?
Would make a shorter list and would be easier to check out.
C.
Shalom
Teletourgos
2004-06-22 08:08:24 UTC
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Post by Friede
Myths and legends have been with us since times beyond remembering and
are likely to be with us well into the future. Most religious groups
have some sort of myths.Christianity has been surrounded by myths,
mysteries, hoax, forgeries, frauds, etc. As far as I know, the
Rosicrucian Order is not free from myths, mysteries, and even
forgeries. Our task as "walking question marks" is to expose all these
myths and forgeries to separate the chaff and straw from the pure
wheat, what's true from what's
false.
1.The Great White Brotherhood, the Great White Lodge of Tibet.
Depends what you want to believe. He called them ethereal beings in
one breath, then said they were real people in another . . .
Post by Friede
2.Mrs. May Banks Stacey.
Probably untrue. Researches of David Rocks put a bullet through the
head of this one.

If Ms Banks Stacey was carrying 'important Rosicrucian documents from
England', then they were probably given to Lewis by Crowley. No one
else in England or chartered from there would have touched him by
1915. He'd fallen out with Plummer, the SRIA would never go near him
and Reuss was probably a bit hard to reach, what with the war going
on.

I don't know what his relationship to the American GD temples was
though ?

On this one, AMORC enjoined Vanloo, Koenig not to trust the work of
Rocks and said 'more would be revealed' by Christian Rebisse. AFAIK,
more never was revealed.

Typical AMORC bait-and-switch technique.

Cast doubts on some good research, impugn the messenger, and allude to
differing information which somehow never gets presented.

Don't slam Gary L though, I think he's said this one's crap too.
Post by Friede
3.The AMORCUS, El Moria Ra, and other Masters.
Not up on this one. Can you say more ? All this 'masters' stuff
stinks of the Theosophical Society and shows AMORC to be much more a
creature of theosophical ancestry than anything Rosicrucian. But it's
hardly alone there.
Post by Friede
4.Forgery of documents (charters, titles, etc.)
The dodgy French one that disappeared early springs to mind. Seemed
to disappear after Crowley showed up in NY, which lines up well with
his recollection to Lewis about 'the good turn' he did him by telling
him to withdraw it on account of the crappy French. Probably happened
in 1918.
Post by Friede
5.Initiation in Toulouse, Count Bellcastle-Ligne...
Likely to have some truth. After all, if Lewis made it up, how come
he got the names of the Toulouse Rosies [almost] right ? I don't
think they were in the phone book or anything ! It's not like
Bellecastle/ Belcastel is a common name.

Nonetheless the idea that this group of amateur historians and minor
aristocrats made him Imperator of half the world is definitely stone
dead except among the AMORC-fundies and conspiracy theorists.
Post by Friede
6.Many versions of Dr. Lewis' history of the Order.
Doubt any of them was near the truth. A pity, because the necessary
connection was there and Lewis's fantasies created great problems for
his members in later years.
Pictor et Architectus
2004-07-10 20:31:28 UTC
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In short:

It is embarrassing (for me and many, many other ex-members and current
members of AMORC) to find out in the end that we belonged to a
"school" established and based in no other foundation than just plain
LIES.

The LIES perpetrated by the con man that was Harvey Spencer Lewis
(HSL). He made the highest claims and they were all lies.

I doubt whether Clymer or Heindel (*real* last name Grasshoff) made up
that much fantasy in order to attract clients to their "rosicrucian"
businesses,.

Obviously HSL thought that the end justified the means. If only we
could know what the end was?

This lack of R+C lineage on the part of HSL means that neither
Christian Bernard nor Gary L. Stewart are Rosicrucian Imperators.

Pictor

--------------
Post by Friede
Myths and legends have been with us since times beyond remembering and
are likely to be with us well into the future. Most religious groups
have some sort of myths.Christianity has been surrounded by myths,
mysteries, hoax, forgeries, frauds, etc. As far as I know, the
Rosicrucian Order is not free from myths, mysteries, and even
forgeries. Our task as "walking question marks" is to expose all these
myths and forgeries to separate the chaff and straw from the pure
wheat, what's true from what's
false.
1.The Great White Brotherhood, the Great White Lodge of Tibet.
2.Mrs. May Banks Stacey.
3.The AMORCUS, El Moria Ra, and other Masters.
4.Forgery of documents (charters, titles, etc.)
5.Initiation in Toulouse, Count Bellcastle-Ligne...
6.Many versions of Dr. Lewis' history of the Order.
And you can add more items to this modest list.
Pax,
FRIEDE
Charles D. Bohne
2004-07-11 06:49:00 UTC
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Post by Pictor et Architectus
It is embarrassing (for me and many, many other ex-members and current
members of AMORC) to find out in the end that we belonged to a
"school" established and based in no other foundation than just plain
LIES.
NO.
You should be proud to have gained the ability to look behind those
"lies".
Post by Pictor et Architectus
The LIES perpetrated by the con man that was Harvey Spencer Lewis
(HSL). He made the highest claims and they were all lies.
All "cults" and "secret organizations" are based on such lies.
Hence, you should see the truth and the truth will set you free.
Post by Pictor et Architectus
I doubt whether Clymer or Heindel (*real* last name Grasshoff) made up
that much fantasy in order to attract clients to their "rosicrucian"
businesses,.
They mostly did it to become IMPORTANT to their fellow men.
Post by Pictor et Architectus
Obviously HSL thought that the end justified the means. If only we
could know what the end was?
Human inferiority complexes.
Post by Pictor et Architectus
This lack of R+C lineage on the part of HSL means that neither
Christian Bernard nor Gary L. Stewart are Rosicrucian Imperators.
The "secret" of the rose is PHILIS= human love.
Post by Pictor et Architectus
Pictor
Charles
(I am that I am)
Skipper
2004-07-15 18:32:13 UTC
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On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 08:49:00 +0200, Charles D. Bohne
Post by Charles D. Bohne
The "secret" of the rose is PHILIS= human love.
Charles
(I am that I am)
Charles,
Greetings from all points.
ITBOTO,
SB, frc
Teletourgos
2004-07-12 02:29:01 UTC
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Post by Pictor et Architectus
It is embarrassing (for me and many, many other ex-members and current
members of AMORC) to find out in the end that we belonged to a
"school" established and based in no other foundation than just plain
LIES.
Well, that is if you want to believe that.

Lewis had a connection to some Toulouse Rosicrucians in 1909, and
probably until 1920.

He then formulated his own teachings, admittedly containing little
Rosicrucian content. He further cemented his relationship with the
heir of the Toulouse tradition in the FUDOSI years. So there may well
be a 'Rosicrucian foundation' there.

So while the version Ralph Lewis wrote in his father's biography
wans't true, it wasn't totally false either.
Post by Pictor et Architectus
The LIES perpetrated by the con man that was Harvey Spencer Lewis
(HSL). He made the highest claims and they were all lies.
Well, I've just shown you that at least claim was partially true, and
there are others.

Can I be a bit brusque ? Stop ranting and picking up and parrotting
other people's research on the Net and do a bit of your own.

You have not replied to posts criticising you and this is sad, because
it demonstrates that, like many of the sillier AMORC members, you have
an agenda and that this agenda is your real master, not truth.
Post by Pictor et Architectus
I doubt whether Clymer or Heindel (*real* last name Grasshoff) made up
that much fantasy in order to attract clients to their "rosicrucian"
businesses,.
Yes they did. If Clymer had been successful, and wasn't such a
naysayer, it may well have been him we pick to bits rather than Lewis.
His claims to Rosicrucian authenticity and inheritance are JUST as
dodgy as Lewis. In fact, probably worse.

To a lesser extent, the same goes for Heindel, who was strongly
influenced by Steiner and wouldn't admit it.

The only American organisation with any links of substance was
probably GW Plummers' Soc Ros in America. They were the heir of
Randolph, recognised by OTO and an heir of the British SRIA which had
its own links to the Gold Und Rosenkreuz.
Post by Pictor et Architectus
This lack of R+C lineage on the part of HSL means that neither
Christian Bernard nor Gary L. Stewart are Rosicrucian Imperators.
Why not ? Maybe their Imperator wasn't ordained by a lineage of
Imperators as claimed, but plenty of other groups have Imperators.

There is nothing to stop AMORC calling its leader an 'Imperator' if
they want.


Teletourgos
f***@gmail.com
2014-04-01 21:18:10 UTC
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Francis,

I invite you and members of this forum to visit my Blog, which discuss all those topics based on my extensive research on AMORC claims of origin and rosicrucian teachings: http://rutilusdiluculo-cmills.blogspot.com.au/2014/01/does-amorc-prepare-student-to-become.html.

Please leave your insightful comments for our appreciation.

Carlos Mills FRC
Post by Friede
Myths and legends have been with us since times beyond remembering and
are likely to be with us well into the future. Most religious groups
have some sort of myths.Christianity has been surrounded by myths,
mysteries, hoax, forgeries, frauds, etc. As far as I know, the
Rosicrucian Order is not free from myths, mysteries, and even
forgeries. Our task as "walking question marks" is to expose all these
myths and forgeries to separate the chaff and straw from the pure
wheat, what's true from what's
false.
1.The Great White Brotherhood, the Great White Lodge of Tibet.
2.Mrs. May Banks Stacey.
3.The AMORCUS, El Moria Ra, and other Masters.
4.Forgery of documents (charters, titles, etc.)
5.Initiation in Toulouse, Count Bellcastle-Ligne...
6.Many versions of Dr. Lewis' history of the Order.
And you can add more items to this modest list.
Pax,
FRIEDE
c***@gmail.com
2014-09-21 18:22:44 UTC
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Please I want be a member. Can someone me out. Contact ***@gmail.com
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