Discussion:
H. Spencer Lewis doctorate
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Mago777
2009-10-29 03:19:17 UTC
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Where did H. Spencer Lewis get his PhD? What was his doctorate in? I
seemed
to have missed this in the AMORC writings.
"" <x>
2009-10-29 20:56:33 UTC
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Mago did not miss a thing. Her post, like many of the posts here, is simply
bait. She is hoping to spread some of her poison accusing HSL of being a
fraud and AMORC of being a fraudulent organization. These people do Gary
Stewart style research hoping to undermine AMORC. Their research reveals
more about them and their motives than it does about AMORC or the Lewis's.

If you analyze their posts, you will discover they never discuss mysticism,
metaphysics or occultism. Their understanding in these fields is limited to
projecting their hate and poison in the hopes of injuring people. Above all,
they hate being exposed for what they are.

If you want to discover AMORC's legitimacy, look at the size of the
organization and the success they've had over their long history. Look at
the respect they have earned in the world. Even Gary Stewart bitched "What
is AMORC but a monument to prestige..." Compare this to the failures of the
pseudo rosicrucian schools. Look at the scandals, schisms and deceptions
they've perpetrated. Compare the nonsensical idiocy the pseudo rosicrucian
groups write with the volumes written by the Lewis's and you get insight
into the people who post these types of attacks and what their motives are.
These are people who use the AMORC monographs to invent new ways of
projecting their hollow and vapid illusions to the AMORC seekers.

Melanaigis

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Post by Mago777
Where did H. Spencer Lewis get his PhD? What was his doctorate in? I
seemed
to have missed this in the AMORC writings.
gls
2009-10-30 03:36:14 UTC
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Raw Message
Hi;
... If you analyze their posts, you will discover they never discuss mysticism,
metaphysics or occultism...
Still waiting for your responses to our alchemical and greek mystery
discussions. I seem to recall the ball is in your court. I still want
to know how you reconcile Rosicrucian allegorical works as necessarily
being alchemical; and your reasoning behind your assertion that
Rosicrucianism is rooted in the Dionysian Mysteries (more
specifically, the cult of dionysius from whence your addy derives). I
seem to recall some fledgling discussions involving Levi, Vril,
Templarism, etc. that you decided not to pursue after you brought them
up. But, tell you what, if you don't want to pursue the above topics
to completion, pick a new mystical, metaphysical, or occult topic and
I'll discuss it with you.
Melanaigis
gls
"" <x>
2009-10-30 17:32:19 UTC
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As I said before, gls is incapable of writing a cogent and readabe essay on
any of these topics. If he were capable of writing as the Lewis's did, he
would have done it. Instead he writes a lot of new age cant, much of it
works against the Rosicrucians.
His only ability is to snipe at what others have done or written, which is
why he wants me to write essays, and post them here.
He acts like a petulent child, demanding information he is not entitled to
and throwing a tantrum when he cannot manipulate people to do what he wants.
He pretends to continue the work of HSL and RML but he allowed the smear
posted here about HSL's arrest to stand for several weeks, without any
response. He would have let the smear about the PhD. stand as well if I had
not responded. This is not the behavior of someone who is carrying on the
work of HSL and RML. He plays both sides, feeding slanders out to the Lewis
haters and anti AMORC crowd, which they post here; then he pretends to
defend the Lewis's, because that's where he makes money. If you subject his
behavior to the same scrutiny he and the Lewis haters give to AMORC, he will
come off far worse.
He pretends to follow the work of the rennaissance rosicrucians as derived
from the manifestoes. This is not true. The major demand placed on those
rosicrucians was to heal the sick. AMORC has always done this; the Council
of Solace can be reached from their front page on their web site. The frauds
and pseudo rosicrucian groups ignore the mandate to heal the sick. So does
Gary Stewart. As with the other fake rosicrucian schools, you will not find
an avenue for healing on his web site, or in his group.

Melanaigis



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"gls" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:e0b4f4aa-fb62-4654-b0e8-***@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
Hi;
... If you analyze their posts, you will discover they never discuss mysticism,
metaphysics or occultism...
Still waiting for your responses to our alchemical and greek mystery
discussions. I seem to recall the ball is in your court. I still want
to know how you reconcile Rosicrucian allegorical works as necessarily
being alchemical; and your reasoning behind your assertion that
Rosicrucianism is rooted in the Dionysian Mysteries (more
specifically, the cult of dionysius from whence your addy derives). I
seem to recall some fledgling discussions involving Levi, Vril,
Templarism, etc. that you decided not to pursue after you brought them
up. But, tell you what, if you don't want to pursue the above topics
to completion, pick a new mystical, metaphysical, or occult topic and
I'll discuss it with you.
Melanaigis
gls
gls
2009-10-31 03:20:14 UTC
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Hi Melanaigis;

On Oct 30, 12:32 pm, "***@teranews.com" <x> wrote:

<snip>
Post by "" <x>
He pretends to continue the work of HSL and RML but he allowed the smear
posted here about HSL's arrest to stand for several weeks, without any
response.
Well, that begs the question then: if you saw it as a smear, then why
didn't *you* set the record straight?
Post by "" <x>
He would have let the smear about the PhD. stand as well if I had
not responded.
You didn't respond. You accused. Why you chose to do that rather than
answer the question is, well ... something you need to sort out with
yourself.
Post by "" <x>
He pretends to follow the work of the rennaissance rosicrucians as derived
from the manifestoes. This is not true. The major demand placed on those
rosicrucians was to heal the sick. AMORC has always done this; the Council
of Solace can be reached from their front page on their web site. The frauds
and pseudo rosicrucian groups ignore the mandate to heal the sick. So does
Gary Stewart. As with the other fake rosicrucian schools, you will not find
an avenue for healing on his web site, or in his group.
You're referring to the first of six laws -- of which all are of equal
importance, and which are the governing laws for each individual
Rosicrucian. If you look at those laws in their entirety, you will see
that the language used is also *professing* something much deeper than
what would be gleaned from a casual glance.

You fail to understand that the CR+C is a confraternity of brother and
sister Rosicrucians. It is not an institution like AMORC. As such, we
as a confraternity and as individuals adhere to those six laws
specifically and in their entirety and take the *personal*
responsibility for their perpetuation and refuse to forsake that
responsibility by giving it to any instutional or corporate structure.
With that in mind, if you ever had any interest in presenting truth in
your campaign, you would easily discover that we very much adhere to
the first law of the Fama and operate rather effective three tiered
healing work both on an individual and collective basis.

You're right about the website, though. We don't advertise healing
there.
Post by "" <x>
Melanaigis
gls
"" <x>
2009-11-01 03:21:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi Gary
..................
"gls" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:a6a0d270-51b0-4a31-a1e5-***@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
Hi Melanaigis;

On Oct 30, 12:32 pm, "***@teranews.com" <x> wrote:

<snip>
Post by "" <x>
He pretends to continue the work of HSL and RML but he allowed the smear
posted here about HSL's arrest to stand for several weeks, without any
response.
Well, that begs the question then: if you saw it as a smear, then why
didn't *you* set the record straight?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It was clearly a smear; no casual seeker digs up a 90 yeor old newspaper
clipping about HSL. They wouldn't know where to look, or what to look for.
Someone was feeding them anti Lewis opposition research. Likewise a casual
researcher would not ask about HSL's PhD. She knew before she asked the
question that it was not earned in the normal way.

...................................
Post by "" <x>
He would have let the smear about the PhD. stand as well if I had
not responded.
You didn't respond. You accused. Why you chose to do that rather than
answer the question is, well ... something you need to sort out with
yourself.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Regarding my untimely response, I'm not the one pretending to lead the
rosicrucians; I have other responsibilities.

I was curious to see if you were behind the smear, and if you would pop up
after I responded. Curious that you did pop up and Mago disappeared. It is
clear who was behind the research that went into the posting.

I exposed you people for what you are, devious and malicious. As I said, you
people fear exposure of what you are, most of all, which is why you jumped
in to try to cover the obvious attempt to attack and damage AMORC. If you
can't palm Mago's statements off as innocent questions then the game is up,
since you are exposed for what you are and your future postings to damage
AMORC will be ineffective. It's a continuation of the campaign you started
shortly after you were removed as imperator.
............................
Post by "" <x>
He pretends to follow the work of the rennaissance rosicrucians as derived
from the manifestoes. This is not true. The major demand placed on those
rosicrucians was to heal the sick. AMORC has always done this; the Council
of Solace can be reached from their front page on their web site. The frauds
and pseudo rosicrucian groups ignore the mandate to heal the sick. So does
Gary Stewart. As with the other fake rosicrucian schools, you will not find
an avenue for healing on his web site, or in his group.
You're referring to the first of six laws -- of which all are of equal
importance, and which are the governing laws for each individual
Rosicrucian. If you look at those laws in their entirety, you will see
that the language used is also *professing* something much deeper than
what would be gleaned from a casual glance.

You fail to understand that the CR+C is a confraternity of brother and
sister Rosicrucians. It is not an institution like AMORC. As such, we
as a confraternity and as individuals adhere to those six laws
specifically and in their entirety and take the *personal*
responsibility for their perpetuation and refuse to forsake that
responsibility by giving it to any instutional or corporate structure.
With that in mind, if you ever had any interest in presenting truth in
your campaign, you would easily discover that we very much adhere to
the first law of the Fama and operate rather effective three tiered
healing work both on an individual and collective basis.

You're right about the website, though. We don't advertise healing
there.
Post by "" <x>
Melanaigis
gls
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The above is an example of your three tiered system of BS. Do you fail to
promote healing because you disbelieve? or because you are ineffective at
it? Cynicism impairs the ability to heal. Failure simply adds to your
cynicism.

I don't fail to understand anything about your confraternity. It's clear
that behind your quibbling you are not upholding the demands of the
manifestoes. Neither are you continuing the work of the Lewis's.

Melanaigis
gls
2009-11-01 20:16:28 UTC
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Hi Melanaigis;

On Oct 31, 9:21 pm, "***@teranews.com" <x> wrote:

<snip>
Post by "" <x>
It was clearly a smear; no casual seeker digs up a 90 yeor old newspaper
clipping about HSL. They wouldn't know where to look, or what to look for.
Someone was feeding them anti Lewis opposition research. Likewise a casual
researcher would not ask about HSL's PhD. She knew before she asked the
question that it was not earned in the normal way.
So your position is that the responsive worthiness of a question is to
be determined by your perceived intent of the asker? For myself, I
take a different view. I couldn't care less what the intent or motive
of an individual is when they ask or pose a question. Some issues need
to be addressed despite questionable or clear intent. That's why I
respond to you. Even though I think you're a kook with an irrational
and immoral agenda, a few things that you present needs to be
addressed.

<snip>
Post by "" <x>
I was curious to see if you were behind the smear, and if you would pop up
after I responded. Curious that you did pop up and Mago disappeared. It is
clear who was behind the research that went into the posting.
It seems either you've been smoking that vril a bit too much or you're
letting your self-righteous hatred eat at you. Probably both.
Sometimes certain types of personalities jump off the deep end in this
type of work. You might want to try to get a handle on a couple of
things and deal with issues rather than delusions.

<snip>

gls
"" <x>
2009-11-02 15:55:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"gls" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:53ebf9e3-b1ac-4166-a31f-***@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
Hi Melanaigis;

On Oct 31, 9:21 pm, "***@teranews.com" <x> wrote:

<snip>
Post by "" <x>
It was clearly a smear; no casual seeker digs up a 90 yeor old newspaper
clipping about HSL. They wouldn't know where to look, or what to look for.
Someone was feeding them anti Lewis opposition research. Likewise a casual
researcher would not ask about HSL's PhD. She knew before she asked the
question that it was not earned in the normal way.
So your position is that the responsive worthiness of a question is to
be determined by your perceived intent of the asker? For myself, I
take a different view. I couldn't care less what the intent or motive
of an individual is when they ask or pose a question. Some issues need
to be addressed despite questionable or clear intent. That's why I
respond to you. Even though I think you're a kook with an irrational
and immoral agenda, a few things that you present needs to be
addressed.

<snip>
Post by "" <x>
I was curious to see if you were behind the smear, and if you would pop up
after I responded. Curious that you did pop up and Mago disappeared. It is
clear who was behind the research that went into the posting.
It seems either you've been smoking that vril a bit too much or you're
letting your self-righteous hatred eat at you. Probably both.
Sometimes certain types of personalities jump off the deep end in this
type of work. You might want to try to get a handle on a couple of
things and deal with issues rather than delusions.

<snip>

gls

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Back at you Gary Stewart,

Mago came to this newsgroup with the intention of spreading her hate and
malice by starting a smear campaign against HSL. The direction of her attack
is similar to statements you and your friends have made about HSL on this
newsgroup. (Similar attacks circulated around the affiliated bodies about
the time Gary Stewart was removed from office.) You let her statements
ferment for several weeks to do their damage. Then you respond only after I
call her statements what
they are, an unfounded attack on AMORC. She came to an AMORC newsgroup for
the sole purpose of satisfying her need for malice. Your response is to
counter one small point she made with her posting while you let the rest of
the posting
stand. Your objective was not to defend HSL or AMORC. Your objective was to
present yourself as an expert in AMORC's history; so you came here to
gratify your own ego needs.

AS for delusions, let's examine your own, Gary Stewart.
When you were imperator at AMORC, you hired unlicensed financial advisors
who had no credentials or certifications to recommend them. They had no
clients similar to AMORC, no track record to prove their expertise. You
entered into a vague ambiguous contract with them, which did not require
specific services from them nor specify payment. You and they set up two
trust funds, which you and they had access to. AMORC did not control these
accounts. This is proved by the fact that the AMORC board of directors could
not get the money back from the Andorra trust when they demanded it from the
bank. They had to file suit to retrieve the money. Neither did they control
the money in the Pittsburgh trust as shown by the money disappearing from
that account without their knowledge or approval. This is from the suit
filed by AMORC "...Stewart directed the Silicon Valley Bank to transfer
Rosicrucian funds to a trust account at Pittsburgh National Bank in
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, then to an account at Banc Agricol i Comercial in
Andorra. The money in the accounts at Pittsburgh National Bank and at Banc
Agricol i Comercial belong to Rosicrucian, and although Stewart as an
individual was named as the "donor" of the funds transferred to the Banc
Agricol i Comercial, the name Rosicrucian appears neither on the documents
authorizing the transfer nor on the Banc Agricol i Comercial account." So if
AMORC was not listed as owner of the funds, then your argument that you made
a safe transfer of funds between AMORC accounts is not true.
Gary Stewart borrowed three million dollars against AMORC's
assets just before the AMORC board of directors was doubled in size; Gary
Stewart deposited the money in these trust funds. There were no specific
plans for the money, except a vague idea to open another office overseas.
This can be done for $1,000. Gary Stewart will not reveal what the remaining
$2,499,000 was going to be used for.

The financial advisors, Gary Stewart hired, took all of the money in the
Pittsburgh trust fund, $750,000. AMORC filed suit and froze the money in the
Andorra trust before that disappeared also. AMORC got stuck with the legal
fees, bank fees and interest on the loan.

That is why Gary Stewart was removed from the office of Imperator of AMORC.
Gary Stewart's response to his removal, is that he was a victim of a
conspiracy run by Christian Bernard. Your minions recently posted an
interview with you, as if you were someone important. Instead of mystic
content, it's full of your hate for the Bernards, and more about your
conspiracy theory. If I go to your website, I read more about your hate and
resentment for Christian Bernard. Christian Bernard had nothing to do with
removing you from office. You were removed because of your financial
dealings. Your theory about a Bernard conspiracy to take over AMORC is your
own delusion.

Melanaigis
gls
2009-11-04 22:42:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Melanaigis;

On Nov 2, 9:55 am, "***@teranews.com" <x> wrote:

<snip>
... You and they set up two
trust funds, which you and they had access to. AMORC did not control these
accounts. This is proved by the fact that the AMORC board of directors could
not get the money back from the Andorra trust when they demanded it from the
bank. They had to file suit to retrieve the money.
They demanded it? Who? When?

I sorta thought you embarrassed yourself into silence regarding your
interpretation of court documents last may when you muddled around the
subject trying to explain why INA sued amorc. But anyway, look at the
time line. Banc Agricol was closed for the Easter holidays from the
close of their business hours on Wednesday, April 11 1990 until
opening hours on wednesday, April 18. When the board meeting was held
on April 11th in california, the banks in Andorra were already closed
and when I called them that night at midnight california time, there
was no answer because the banks were closed. Since AMORC sued them on
Good Friday, April 13th, it's clear that they shot first and didn't
bother speaking later. No one from amorc spoke with the bank trying to
get the funds returned prior to the suit. So, no melanaigis, amorc
*didn't* have to file suit to retrieve the money. They could've waited
until the 18th and not only would they have retrieved the funds, they
could've saved themselves almost three times that amount in litigation
and settlement fees.

Anyway, since your feeble attempt at your above proof failed once
again, does this mean I'm vindicated in your mind? No? ... Oh
well ... thought I'd ask.

No need for me to respond to your other twists and turns. If anyone is
interersted they can directly read what I wrote previously in this ng.
They can also read your spin if they want as well.

<snip>
Melanaigis
gls
"" <x>
2009-11-06 18:04:26 UTC
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Raw Message
"gls" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:f34407c1-5607-42c0-b02a-***@f20g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
Melanaigis;

I sorta thought you embarrassed yourself into silence regarding your
interpretation of court documents last may when you muddled around the
subject trying to explain why INA sued amorc.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I saw no reason to respond, since it was clear from what you wrote that
AMORC DID NOT HIDE OR FORGE DOCUMENTS.
The people who were responsible for that WERE HIRED BY GARY STEWART AND HIS
FINANCIAL ADVISORS. They made money from the financial transactions Gary
Stewart authorized.

As for your implication that B Schaa "somehow committed fraud" by depositing
money in the Pittsburgh trust, let's revisit that. Your financial advisors
asked you to deposit $250,000 in that account and you refused. This shows
you , Gary Stewart, knew that they could raid that account at will and take
whatever they found there. You did not inform B Schaa of your decision not
to put funds into that account. Neither did you inform the Board of
Directors that the trust was set up so you and your financial advisors could
take money from the account. Your financial advisors went behind your back
and asked B Schaa to put money in that account. He did not know the
financial advisors could raid that account and thought, as you stated
before, he was safely transfering money from one AMORC account to another.
Two weeks later you borrowed three million dollars against AMORC's assets,
deposited $500,000 in that account. Your financial advisors took all of the
money in that account, $750,000.
The worst thing you can say about the $250,000 deposit by Schaa is that it
was an overpayment. Honorable men return overpayments in business all the
time. Your financial advisors did not return the money.

The dispute between the bonding company and AMORC was whether it was a
legitemate payment to your financial advisors or embezzlement; there was
also a question about your role in the scam, since you were the one bonded.

That's where the cleverly written, vague contract comes into play. That's
why you now say the money was a payment to the financial advisors. It clears
you of your responsibility for setting up the account and depositing money
in it. In the past you've written that the money from that account would
have been returned if AMORC had just asked for it. So you know it was not a
payment. How can you justify your actions or the actions of your financial
advisors?

You accuse me of an immoral agenda; your writing shows you believe that
anything is justified if you can fool people and get away with it.

...............................................


But anyway, look at the
time line. Banc Agricol was closed for the Easter holidays from the
close of their business hours on Wednesday, April 11 1990 until
opening hours on wednesday, April 18. When the board meeting was held
on April 11th in california, the banks in Andorra were already closed
and when I called them that night at midnight california time, there
was no answer because the banks were closed.
gls
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Are you saying the banks were closed for a week? No one there? Why would you
set up an account with a bank that closes for a week at a time?
Why would you initiate the transfer just before a bank holiday? Why did you
rush to borrow the money just before the Board of Directors was doubled in
size? Why didn't you get the proper authorizations?
There are other ways to transfer money other than by phone calls. Why didn't
you use a wire service to get the money returned? You could have used a
telegram to request the return of the money. You made no effort to return
the money and were clearly stalling.
How can you justify depositing the money in a foreign country in your own
name? Who else had access to that money?

Keranos-Melanaigis
Sid
2009-11-07 00:25:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
The Grand Masters/Board of Directors/Supreme Council of the Order did
not have the courage or the moral gumption to follow the simple
instructions within the Constitution of the Supreme Grand Lodge of
AMORC or the C&S of the Order. You may have removed the 'President' of
the Order but you have not 'removed' the Imperator of the ORC.

"The Imperator shall hold office for life.He may be removed by the
Supreme Council for malfeasance in office or after due conviction of a
crime involving moral turpitude; provided that he shall not be removed
until after due trial and conviction by the Supreme Tribunal of this
Order. ... ."

- Article V. Section 4 of the Constitution of the Supreme Grand Lodge
of AMORC

Members and officers were expelled for asking questions, and there was
no Supreme Tribunal.The Imperator's rights and the rights of the
members were removed. Members/officers received letters full of half
truths, even quoting from the so called 'H' letters, and made to
believe that it was a criminal case. It was not.

Wake up!!!
"" <x>
2009-11-07 06:59:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Sid

One of the tragic aspects of the whole affair for AMORC was the loss of
noble well intentioned people like yourself. Some were driven out; others
just became so disgusted with the lack of information and disinformation
they left. The affair was very poorly handled. But to accept Stewart's
conspiracy theory, and lay all the blame at the feet of Christian Bernard is
a mistake. I think you were put out by the O'Neils. They were brought into
AMORC by Gary Stewart, not Christian Bernard. Their first loyalty was to
Bhuddism, not AMORC or Rosicrucianism. The Grand Master was in the eighth or
ninth degree when all of this happened. I don't think she had any
preparation for the forces she had to deal with. It would take an advanced
heirarchy member to understand the forces working into the situation. The
next two Grand Masters appointed by CB were no better qualified.
But Gary Stewart changes his story depending on the moon phases. A few years
ago, the bank account in Pittsburgh was a trust; now it's an AMORC business
account. He claims he was the one who got the money back from Andorra the
night the Board demanded it be returned. (if that were true, it would not
have taken thirty days to get it back) In another version of the story, no
one was available in Andorra. You can't rely on any part of his story,
because he'll change it in the next telling to distract you from the germain
parts. So we can pick at the details forever. They will constantly change.

But let me ask you this, if I borrowed $3,000,000 against your assets,
deposited $500,000 in a bank which other people had access to, and those
people took all of the money in that account, then I deposited $2,500,000 of
your money in a bank in a foreign country, and you had no control over that
account, moreover, I refused to give you even the bank account number or any
accounting of why I took the money or what it was for, would you think that
I was engaged in criminal activity? Would you believe me if I told you it
was all Christian Bernard's idea and he was responsible?

One final point, there were enough heirarchy members among the Board of
Directors or the Grand Masters who voted unanimously to oust Gary Stewart,
to constitute themselves a Supreme Tribunal. Gary Stewart was given a chance
to speak at that meeting. They still removed him from office.

Melanaigis
Sid
2009-11-07 13:44:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by "" <x>
Sid
One of the tragic aspects of the whole affair for AMORC was the loss of
noble well intentioned people like yourself. Some were driven out; others
just became so disgusted with the lack of information and disinformation
they left. The affair was very poorly handled. But to accept Stewart's
conspiracy theory, and lay all the blame at the feet of Christian Bernard is
a mistake. I think you were put out by the O'Neils. They were brought into
AMORC by Gary Stewart, not Christian Bernard. Their first loyalty was to
Bhuddism, not AMORC or Rosicrucianism. The Grand Master was in the eighth or
ninth degree when all of this happened. I don't think she had any
preparation for the forces she had to deal with. It would take an advanced
heirarchy member to understand the forces working into the situation. The
next two Grand Masters appointed by CB were no better qualified.
But Gary Stewart changes his story depending on the moon phases. A few years
ago, the bank account in Pittsburgh was a trust; now it's an AMORC business
account. He claims he was the one who got the money back from Andorra the
night the Board demanded it be returned. (if that were true, it would not
have taken thirty days to get it back) In another version of the story, no
one was available in Andorra. You can't rely on any part of his story,
because he'll change it in the next telling to distract you from the germain
parts. So we can pick at the details forever. They will constantly change.
But let me ask you this, if I borrowed $3,000,000 against your assets,
deposited $500,000 in a bank which other people had access to, and those
people took all of the money in that account, then I deposited $2,500,000 of
your money in a bank in a foreign country, and you had no control over that
account, moreover, I refused to give you even the bank account number or any
accounting of why I took the money or what it was for, would you think that
I was engaged in criminal activity? Would you believe me if I told you it
was all Christian Bernard's idea and he was responsible?
One final point, there were enough heirarchy members among the Board of
Directors or the Grand Masters who voted unanimously to oust Gary Stewart,
to constitute themselves a Supreme Tribunal. Gary Stewart was given a chance
to speak at that meeting. They still removed him from office.
Melanaigis
How many signatures were there that were needed for the loan of
$3,000,000 and whose signatures were on the document? Just Gary's
signature?
"" <x>
2009-11-07 18:33:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Sid

You have to pay close attention to the way Gary parses his words. The last
time he explained this, he says he got another director to sign a notice of
intention to borrow. This is not the same as approval and authorization from
the board to borrow the money. They would not borrow the money and pay
interest on it until there were approved plans for the money. Not even Gary
Stewart can explain why he needed three million dollars, so it's obvious
there were no approved plans. If his plans were so good, why not wait two
days until the board was doubled in size and then explain his plans to them
all, so he could get their approval to borrow the money?

He and his financial advisors had been holding daily meetings with the board
for over a week trying to get the money and the board did not approve of his
plans; so they stonewalled, waiting for the board's expansion to include the
other grand masters.

Then he borrowed $3,000,000, sent the money to Pittsburgh to a trust he now
says was a business account.; then he moved $2,500,000 from the bank in
Pittsburgh to the bank in Andorra without anyone's signature but his own. He
knew this was not allowed, but it was a way to move a huge sum of money
without getting the needed signatures, or alerting the board to what he was
doing. He left $500,000 in the Pittsburgh bank for his financial advisors,
who helped him set things up. The account he deposited the money in, did not
have AMORC's name on it; it was Gary Stewart's account. He would not give
the board the account number or explain anything about his actions.

They would not approve Gary Stewart depositing AMORC's money in an account
which had his name on it and not AMORC's. As for the board's approval, I
think the first they found out about it was from a First Pennsylvania Lodge
member, who works in the financial industry, who saw the wire transfer.

I don't care if Stewart did convince another board member that he should be
allowed to borrow the money. For an expensive transaction that size, he
should have gotten approval from all of them.

Gary Stewart pretends to have some divine authority extended to him from
Ralph Lewis and H Lewis, similar to the divine right of kings. He makes a
big issue of his lineage on his web site. I could go on and explain how he
has taken a different path than the Lewis's, but it would take too long. If
you search Ralph Lewis's writing you will discover that the board of
directors selected Gary Stewart, not Ralph Lewis. Ralph wrote that he bowed
to their authority. Check Ralph's written letter to his friends when he knew
transition was approaching. When Stewart stepped outside of legal parameters
of his office, the board removed him.

Keranos



Some pertinent notes from the AMORC filing:

24. Plaintiff is informed and believes that Stewart did the acts herein
alleged with the intent to deceive and defraud plaintiff and attempted to
conceal his fraudulent conduct by, among other things, refusing to obtain
the necessary Board approval and requisite signatures, and by refusing to
explain his actions and to disclose the Banc Agricol I Comercial account
name and number where plaintiff's funds are believed to have been deposited.
Sid
2009-11-07 21:42:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Greetings,
Post by "" <x>
Sid
Gary Stewart pretends to have some divine authority extended to him from
Ralph Lewis and H Lewis, similar to the divine right of kings. He makes a
big issue of his lineage on his web site. I could go on and explain how he
has taken a different path than the Lewis's, but it would take too long. If
you search Ralph Lewis's writing you will discover that the board of
directors selected Gary Stewart, not Ralph Lewis. Ralph wrote that he bowed
to their authority. Check Ralph's written letter to his friends when he knew
transition was approaching. When Stewart stepped outside of legal parameters
of his office, the board removed him.
Both the Lewis's were different, and Gary Stewart's way of doing
things is different too.

Please do explain, I have the time.

Is it not a corporate requirement of Ca. law that the directors vote
in the President of the Order for 5 years?

Ralf Lewis's responsibility as Imperator was to find and choose his
successor.

I do not have a copy of the letter you mention, but Ralf did write to
me 6 months before his transition in answer to a report that I had
sent in.

As many others, I also viewed the court case as a smoke screen.

The problems within AMORC/TMO were there long before Gary was even a
member of the Order.

It is obvious that we see things differently.

Sid
gls
2009-11-08 21:37:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi Sid;
<snip>
Post by Sid
Please do explain, I have the time.
I doubt that melanaigis will give you any responses directly
pertaining to your questions. The man's on a crusade; his head stuck
in a self-styled mission that apparently gives him a sense of purpose.
Until he decides to wrap it up and let it go, I doubt you'll get
anything useful out of him.
Post by Sid
Sid
gls
"" <x>
2009-11-09 15:34:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Sid

If I were on a mission I would join every Rosicrucian discussion group on
the web to set things straight.

Gary Stewart is rewriting history on his web site; there are numerous lies
there and he knows it. It is a disservice to the Lewis's to let these things
go by without comment. Gary Stewart is entitled to the degenerates, the
Lewis haters and the anti AMORC book writers he has attracted to himself; he
is not entitled to victimize true seekers, take their money, and poison them
with his own degeneracy and the degeneracy of the people around him.
Incidentally, the idea that the Europeans forced the expansion of the Board
of Directors of AMORC to run the conspiracy to throw Gary Stewart out, is
another rewrite of history; the story used to be that the change was forced
on him by Internal Revenue Service. Gary Stewart feeds out lies, which
people rely on as true, only to change the lie in the future when it becomes
expedient, so he can say his opposition is misinformed, and he can pretend
he's persecuted. He relys on the silence of AMORC to run his game.

Melanaigis
"gls" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:3c51b0d6-0952-411a-a8c8-***@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
Hi Sid;
<snip>
Post by Sid
Please do explain, I have the time.
I doubt that melanaigis will give you any responses directly
pertaining to your questions. The man's on a crusade; his head stuck
in a self-styled mission that apparently gives him a sense of purpose.
Until he decides to wrap it up and let it go, I doubt you'll get
anything useful out of him.
Post by Sid
Sid
gls
Sid
2009-11-09 17:01:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Greetings Melanaigis,
Post by "" <x>
Sid
If I were on a mission I would join every Rosicrucian discussion group on
the web to set things straight.
Gary Stewart is rewriting history on his web site; there are numerous lies
there and he knows it.
Which website are you refering to, CR+C, OMCE, BMO or other?

Please, put what you believe to be lies 'up front' and 'on the table',
so that they can be addressed.
Post by "" <x>
It is a disservice to the Lewis's to let these things go by without comment.
Fortunately, all 3 Imperators understood the 'process' by fire.
Post by "" <x>
Gary Stewart is entitled to the degenerates, the Lewis haters and
I have met very few so called 'Lewis haters', as you call them. A few
bitter 'old men' with big ego problems, here and there. They allow
others to spread their poison for them, and hid behind secret names.
That some Grand masters in different Orders had or have issues with
HSL/RML/GLS is not the point, more what they do/have done with it.
What goes round, comes round.
Post by "" <x>
the anti AMORC book writers he has attracted to himself;
Please list sources and books etc.
Post by "" <x>
he is not entitled to victimize true seekers, take their money, and poison them
with his own degeneracy and the degeneracy of the people around him.
True seakers in any Order serving Light have nothing to fear.
Post by "" <x>
Incidentally, the idea that the Europeans forced the expansion of the Board
of Directors of AMORC to run the conspiracy to throw Gary Stewart out, is
another rewrite of history;
Some Grand Masters in Europe wanted the expansion of the Board, yes,
but it was not 'forced', infact if my understanding is correct, it was
given to them by Gary. And what did they do with it when they got the
expansion?
Post by "" <x>
the story used to be that the change was forced on him by Internal Revenue Service.
My information at the time was that there was a new IRS ruling that
was to come into affect a year later, (about a year before the coup),
that all organisations like AMORC who had their Headquarters in the US
had to open their books 'worldwide'. Some Grand Masters in Europe did
not want to do this. Solution: move the Headquarters out of the
country. End of story.
Post by "" <x>
Gary Stewart feeds out lies, which people rely on as true, only to change the lie in the
future when it becomes expedient, so he can say his opposition is misinformed, and he can pretend
he's persecuted. He relys on the silence of AMORC to run his game.
Where on earth do you get this from???

Again, please put what you (or others) believe to be lies, on the
table so that they can be addressed!!!

The 'silence' of AMORC was very loud and clear when everything blew up
and was taken to court.

I would hope that AMORC has withdrawn to the silence to do the 'Work'
instead of creating negative energy, that is welcomed, and used by
others for their own ends.
Post by "" <x>
Melanaigis
If there is arrogance in Europe, then the Americans would do well not
to believe everything that comes out of it as so called 'historical
factes', be it 'Rosicrucian' or otherwise.

Best I can do for now.

Sid
"" <x>
2009-11-09 18:00:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Sid

Stewart's website states that AMORC admitted Stewart did nothing wrong.
THIS IS NOT TRUE. Gary Stewart started the story that Christian Bernard
"admitted" he knew Stewart did nothing wrong. He had it posted in an
interview he had placed on Cathari's site. Since then he found someone to
claim they know someone who claims to have heard this at the hearing. The
truth is AMORC realized their suit was a hole in the ocean they were
throwing money in, and dropped the suit. They did not sue him for fun; they
did not sue him just to get rid of him; they wanted the $750,000 which his
financial advisors took, returned. The contract he signed with the
"advisors" was convoluted enough that it was impossible to prosecute them
for taking the money. This is why he gets away with calling it a "payment".
It was not a payment; it was more of a payoff. He admitted it was not a
payment on this newsgroup. If you look at what the financial advisors were
supposed to do, as told by Gary Stewart on this newsgroup, you will discover
THEY DID NONE OF THOSE THINGS. Moreover most of the projects could be done
for free i.e. setting up credit card accounts for AMORC members and a life
and health insurance benefit plan. Not even a contract analyst for the
federal government could justify a $750,000 payment for the little bit the
"advisors" did. Mostly they palled around with the ex imperator, ant tried
to convince the board of directors to give them money for projects others
would do for free.

I'm not going to get caught up in Stewart's bait and switch program, and
argue irrelevant minutia. I don't care if CB wanted to be Imperator; that's
not germain. I don't care if the European Grand Masters wanted Stewart out;
that's not germain. The truth is Gary Stewart's "financial advisors" took
$750,000 from AMORC and did nothing to earn the money. Gary Stewart got his
hands on $3,000,000 of AMORC's money, (a lot of hardworking AMORC members
earned that money and donated it to AMORC) and he put $2,500,000 in a bank
in a foreign country under his own name, not AMORC'S. If you can't see
something wrong with this, you are such a fool, AMORC is better off without
you.

Keranos
Sid
2009-11-09 22:24:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Greetings Keranos,

It's been such a long time since all this happened, so please excuse
me if I'm a little rusty regarding the events of the past.
Post by "" <x>
Sid
Stewart's website states that AMORC admitted Stewart did nothing wrong.
THIS IS NOT TRUE. Gary Stewart started the story that Christian Bernard
"admitted" he knew Stewart did nothing wrong. He had it posted in an
interview he had placed on Cathari's site. Since then he found someone to
claim they know someone who claims to have heard this at the hearing. The
truth is AMORC realized their suit was a hole in the ocean they were
throwing money in, and dropped the suit. They did not sue him for fun; they
did not sue him just to get rid of him; they wanted the $750,000 which his
financial advisors took, returned. The contract he signed with the
"advisors" was convoluted enough that it was impossible to prosecute them
for taking the money. This is why he gets away with calling it a "payment".
It was not a payment; it was more of a payoff. He admitted it was not a
payment on this newsgroup. If you look at what the financial advisors were
supposed to do, as told by Gary Stewart on this newsgroup, you will discover
THEY DID NONE OF THOSE THINGS. Moreover most of the projects could be done
for free i.e. setting up credit card accounts for AMORC members and a life
and health insurance benefit plan. Not even a contract analyst for the
federal government could justify a $750,000 payment for the little bit the
"advisors" did. Mostly they palled around with the ex imperator, ant tried
to convince the board of directors to give them money for projects others
would do for free.
I'm not going to get caught up in Stewart's bait and switch program, and
argue irrelevant minutia. I don't care if CB wanted to be Imperator; that's
not germain. I don't care if the European Grand Masters wanted Stewart out;
that's not germain. The truth is Gary Stewart's "financial advisors" took
$750,000 from AMORC and did nothing to earn the money. Gary Stewart got his
hands on $3,000,000 of AMORC's money, (a lot of hardworking AMORC members
earned that money and donated it to AMORC) and he put $2,500,000 in a bank
in a foreign country under his own name, not AMORC'S. If you can't see
something wrong with this, you are such a fool, AMORC is better off without
you.
Keranos
What you have described is 'embezzlement' pure and simple. Are you
telling me that in the US one can get away with embezzlement? The IRS
and embezzlement = a criminal case. It was a civil case. Why didn't
the powers that be within the Order have the moral courage and
gumption to inform the members the truth in the first place. Instead
of letters sent to a few officers stamped 'confidential' and full of
half truths and rumors & gossip from the so called 'H' letters? When
was the first 'H' letter posted?

How many signatures did one need to get the loan of $3,000,000 from
the bank? When was the insurance cover taken out in the case of
possible legal action? Planned??? premeditated???

Was the case not worth something in the region of $36,000,000 ( $36
million!!!). Talk about dumb and stupid. They had manouvered
themselves into a corner and didn't stop digging their own hole!!!
Then proceed to put member's money into it.

Extracts from the original Constitution of the Grand Lodge of AMORC
Article II.-Section 6A "All matters within the official cognizance and
concern of the Order are divided into two classes, namely: Doctrinal-
Ritualistic and Administrative. The Administrative is divided into two
branches, Legistative and Judicial."

Why take the case to court without first going through the proper
channels???

In Article V.-Section 10 it is quite clearly stated that "All members
and subordinate bodies of the Grand Lodge shall use every means within
the Order for the adjustment of any controversies or perplexities. The
members of the Order or any subordinate bodies thereof shall not seek
redress in the courts for any complaints or grievances untill such
member or such subordinate body has exhausted its rights in the
tribunals of the Order. The seeking of redress in the courts, without
first exhausting its rights in the established tribunals of the Order,
shall automatically cancel all rights of membership in the Order and
all rights granted by the charter to the subordinate body."

They were all members of the Order.

Are you telling me they did not know their own C&S etc of the Order?

More light on this please.

Sid
"" <x>
2009-11-10 01:10:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Greetings Sid,

It has been a long time; my memory has also faded. The few people I would
trust to shed light on events leading up to this catastrophe are dead. Poole
Piepenbrink Bersok.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Sid" <***@T-Online.de> wrote in message news:e67e9163-f485-4441-8ba3-***@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Greetings Keranos,

It's been such a long time since all this happened, so please excuse
me if I'm a little rusty regarding the events of the past.
..................................................................................
Post by "" <x>
Sid
Stewart's website states that AMORC admitted Stewart did nothing wrong.
THIS IS NOT TRUE. Gary Stewart started the story that Christian Bernard
"admitted" he knew Stewart did nothing wrong. He had it posted in an
interview he had placed on Cathari's site. Since then he found someone to
claim they know someone who claims to have heard this at the hearing. The
truth is AMORC realized their suit was a hole in the ocean they were
throwing money in, and dropped the suit. They did not sue him for fun; they
did not sue him just to get rid of him; they wanted the $750,000 which his
financial advisors took, returned. The contract he signed with the
"advisors" was convoluted enough that it was impossible to prosecute them
for taking the money. This is why he gets away with calling it a "payment".
It was not a payment; it was more of a payoff. He admitted it was not a
payment on this newsgroup. If you look at what the financial advisors were
supposed to do, as told by Gary Stewart on this newsgroup, you will discover
THEY DID NONE OF THOSE THINGS. Moreover most of the projects could be done
for free i.e. setting up credit card accounts for AMORC members and a life
and health insurance benefit plan. Not even a contract analyst for the
federal government could justify a $750,000 payment for the little bit the
"advisors" did. Mostly they palled around with the ex imperator, ant tried
to convince the board of directors to give them money for projects others
would do for free.
I'm not going to get caught up in Stewart's bait and switch program, and
argue irrelevant minutia. I don't care if CB wanted to be Imperator; that's
not germain. I don't care if the European Grand Masters wanted Stewart out;
that's not germain. The truth is Gary Stewart's "financial advisors" took
$750,000 from AMORC and did nothing to earn the money. Gary Stewart got his
hands on $3,000,000 of AMORC's money, (a lot of hardworking AMORC members
earned that money and donated it to AMORC) and he put $2,500,000 in a bank
in a foreign country under his own name, not AMORC'S. If you can't see
something wrong with this, you are such a fool, AMORC is better off without
you.
Keranos
What you have described is 'embezzlement' pure and simple. Are you
telling me that in the US one can get away with embezzlement?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yes.
..........................................................

The IRS
and embezzlement = a criminal case. It was a civil case.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It only becomes a criminal case if a state or federal prosecutor will agree
to take the case on. If they feel it may be tough to win the case, or if the
case is not very glamorous and they are busy, or if they feel the injured
party was so stupid they deserved to be taken, then they will simply ignore
the case. Then the injured party has to bring a civil suit.
In the United States, a gang of thugs can beat you almost to death while the
police watch, and you have no recourse against the police for not protecting
you. Nor do prosecutors have to prosecute if they don't want to.
As for IRS, they have their own courts and judges. They can only get
involved in a case if taxes are involved. Since Gary Stewart was removed and
the money in Andorra retrieved, they had nothing to prosecute.
.......................................................
Why didn't
the powers that be within the Order have the moral courage and
gumption to inform the members the truth in the first place. Instead
of letters sent to a few officers stamped 'confidential' and full of
half truths and rumors & gossip from the so called 'H' letters? When
was the first 'H' letter posted?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I don't remember the H letters. But I remember some others that were
circulated. Most were full of half truths and innuendos. There were letters
from both sides defending Stewart and condemning him. These filled the void
because the officers were withholding information. You may remember the
regional monitors and grand councilors were called to San Jose to get an
explanation of what happened, and look at all of the documentation. They
were supposed to go to the affiliated bodies to explain the events. They
didn't. This is what angered me. They had information about what had
happened but wouldn't tell. Some thought Stewart would get back into office
somehow; I know one who was loyal to Stewart because she'd been given
membership in the MCE. As Grand Councilor she controlled the official flow
on information to the region I was in. So we got no information, except the
propaganda letters.
...........................................................................


How many signatures did one need to get the loan of $3,000,000 from
the bank?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I don't know and don't trust the answers I've been given.
This is one area where Gary Stewart gets deceptive. There was something he
called a Notice of intent to borrow. I think this was the approval of the
board to set up a margin account so it would be possible to borrow against
their assets. It was not an authorization to borrow money, no matter how
many people signed it.
.........................................................

When was the insurance cover taken out in the case of
possible legal action? Planned??? premeditated???
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
They've always been bonded. If Vern would come back on he can tell you about
a case in the sixties or fifties where the treasurer of the St. Louis Lodge,
had a gambling problem and gambled all of the Lodge funds away. The bonding
company paid the loss and took legal action against the man responsible.
This is what bonding companies do.
I think this is what happened:
I think there were two types of bonds; a blanket bond which covered all of
the officers of the affiliated bodies and a position schedule bond where
they bonded specific corporate officers, who were in a position to get their
hands on much larger sums of money. This is where the legal problems would
have started with the bonding company. The financial advisors were not
corporate officers, so they were not covered by the bond even though they
took the money. To get the money back the bonding company had to go after
Gary Stewart as a bonded officer, and show he was directly responsible for
them taking the money. Since he didn't have the money the bonding company
had no chance of recovering from him, so they wanted out of the situation.
Now it gets more complicated depending on how the corporate minutes were
written and how the contract with the financial advisors was written.
The contract was ambiguous enough that Gary Stewart and the financial
advisors were able to claim the money taken was a payment. A year after the
incident, AMORC had to file a tax return and probably used a form1099, to
show the disbursement of the money. This is what Gary Stewart is claiming
makes it a payment. It's simply the type of legal trick used in American
courts.
.....................................................................

Was the case not worth something in the region of $36,000,000 ( $36
million!!!). Talk about dumb and stupid. They had manouvered
themselves into a corner and didn't stop digging their own hole!!!
Then proceed to put member's money into it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think that number must have come from adding the value of all of the real
estate owned by AMORC around the world. It's the first time I've heard it. I
think the stupid part was how they treated the members; they lost thousands.
....................................................................

Extracts from the original Constitution of the Grand Lodge of AMORC
Article II.-Section 6A "All matters within the official cognizance and
concern of the Order are divided into two classes, namely: Doctrinal-
Ritualistic and Administrative. The Administrative is divided into two
branches, Legistative and Judicial."

Why take the case to court without first going through the proper
channels???
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
According to the court documents, Gary Stewart had secreted $2,500,000 in a
bank in Andorra, and left AMORC off the account. He would not reveal the
account name or number when they first asked him. I think the $750,000 had
already disappeared. So there was an urgency to the situation.
..........................................................

In Article V.-Section 10 it is quite clearly stated that "All members
and subordinate bodies of the Grand Lodge shall use every means within
the Order for the adjustment of any controversies or perplexities. The
members of the Order or any subordinate bodies thereof shall not seek
redress in the courts for any complaints or grievances untill such
member or such subordinate body has exhausted its rights in the
tribunals of the Order. The seeking of redress in the courts, without
first exhausting its rights in the established tribunals of the Order,
shall automatically cancel all rights of membership in the Order and
all rights granted by the charter to the subordinate body."

They were all members of the Order.

Are you telling me they did not know their own C&S etc of the Order?

More light on this please.

Sid
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
As I said before, I know your intentions are honorable and you would have
followed the Constitution and Statutes, and expected others to do the same.
I can't explain AMORC'S actions or excuse them in some areas. I know in
your own situation, you were not treated fairly; but I think you can be
fairly loud and intimidating in a public meeting. You may have scared the
regional officers, who no doubt reported back to the Grand Master.
You and I and the other heirarchy members had a right to know what happened,
and were only following our oaths when trying to discover the truth.
Unfortunately human nature got in the way; people from top to bottom thought
it was in their best interest to hide what happened from the light of day.
It created a terrible stench.

Keranos Melanaigis
gls
2009-11-10 15:56:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Melanaigis;
Post by Sid
How many signatures did one need to get the loan of $3,000,000 from
the bank?
I don't know ...
You don't know? And here all this time I was thinking you were arguing
that only one person's signature was required -- mine.
and don't trust the answers I've been given.
Try this one (not the first time it's been said here in this ng). A
corporate resolution to borrow must be passed by the board of
directors (meaning a majority of the board must approve it). And then
a signed copy of that resolution must be given to the bank -- signed
by the treasurer and one other director.
This is one area where Gary Stewart gets deceptive. There was something he
called a Notice of intent to borrow.
Talk about being deceptive, melanaigis. No, the document in question
is the corporate resolution to borrow 3 million from Silicon Valley
Bank. Banks require it before money is loaned. It was passed, signed,
and delivered. The document is in the court papers. Look it up.
According to the court documents, Gary Stewart had secreted $2,500,000 in a
bank in Andorra, and left AMORC off the account.
He would not reveal the
account name or number when they first asked him.
Banc Agricol had faxed Burnam to his office in Rosicrucian park a
confirmation that the money was received. Burnam then copied that
confirmation and gave each of the newly expanded board directors a
copy -- which included the account name and number. Kinda begs the
question doesn't it? Why would the bank send burnam confirmation -- at
our hq no less? And why would all those financial wizards find it
necessary to ask me what the account number was while they're looking
at it?

Why do you keep bringing all this up? Let it go, it's over. Why don't
you go back to our previous discussion where you were telling me what
the CR+C does and doesn't do; or what I understand or don't understand
about rosicrucianism; or better yet, why you think amorc is rooted in
the dionysian mystery school.
Keranos Melanaigis
gls
"" <x>
2009-11-10 16:57:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"gls" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:cf38ce6e-a302-4984-913b-***@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...

Try this one (not the first time it's been said here in this ng). A
corporate resolution to borrow must be passed by the board of
directors (meaning a majority of the board must approve it). And then
a signed copy of that resolution must be given to the bank -- signed
by the treasurer and one other director.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Even an authorization to borrow money, if it exists, does not mean you can
transfer the money to a trust? business account? foreign account in your own
name, which you did.
AMORC also sued the California bank for their role in this. See below.



48. Plaintiff is informed and believes that on or about March 28, 1990
defendant Stewart negligently directed the transfer of $3 million of
Rosicrucian funds from Silicon National Bank without the required Board
approval and without the three requisite authorized signatures proximately
causing the loss of $3 million by Rosicrucian.

49.Plaintiff is informed and believes that on or about April 5, 1990,
defendant Stewart negligently directed the transfer of $3 million of
Rosicrucian funds from Pennsylvania National Bank to Banc Agricol i
Comercial in Andorra, without the required Board approval and without the
three requisite authorized signatures, proximately causing the loss of $3
million by Rosicrucian.

50. Plaintiff is informed and believes that on or about April 2, 1990
defendant Silicon Valley Bank negligently transferred $3 million of
Rosicrucian funds to Pennsylvania National Bank, upon the direction of
defendant Stewart, and without Board approval and without the three
requisite authorized signatures proximately causing the loss of $3 million
by Rosicrucian.

51. Plaintiff is informed and believes that on or about April 5, 1990,
defendant Pittsburgh National Bank negligently transferred $3 million of
Rosicrucian funds to Bank Agricol i Comercial, upon the direction of
defendant Stewart, without Board approval and without the three requisite
authorized signatures, proximately causing the loss of $3 million by
Rosicrucian.

.....................................



Banc Agricol had faxed Burnam to his office in Rosicrucian park a
confirmation that the money was received. Burnam then copied that
confirmation and gave each of the newly expanded board directors a
copy -- which included the account name and number. Kinda begs the
question doesn't it? Why would the bank send burnam confirmation -- at
our hq no less? And why would all those financial wizards find it
necessary to ask me what the account number was while they're looking
at it?

gls
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So after AMORC tracked the money trail from the California bank to the
Pennsylvania bank to the Andorra bank, they got a confirmation that the
money was in Andorra and provided proof to the new Board of Directors so
they had proof of what you'd done so they could vote on your removal.

Keranos
Sid
2009-11-10 21:18:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Nov 10, 5:57 pm, "***@teranews.com" <x> wrote:

Greetings Keranos,

Filing a suit is not that difficult. You just get a lawyer to put your
information and point of view, facts (?) onto paper so that it can be
legally presented in court.

The filing of the suit by AMORC should not have happened. But it did,
so this should tell you something about another 'process' which was
taking place.

Gary did not run and hide, as some were hoping he would.

The filing of the suit by AMORC was simply a ploy because what they
were hoping for did not happen.

How many times was Gary in court and when?

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the case just left to get
forgotten about until AMORC were contacted and told to do something
about it or remove it from the docket? Wasn't it left to gather dust
for 3 years? Correct me if any of this is wrong.

The filing of the suit by AMORC was a simple ploy to remove Gary as
the 'president' of the Order, this was then presented to the
membership in such a way as to have the members think and believe that
the Imperator was removed for embezzlement.

Sid
"" <x>
2009-11-10 22:22:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"Sid" <***@T-Online.de> wrote in message news:7430cecd-7263-43da-9ff2-***@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 10, 5:57 pm, "***@teranews.com" <x> wrote:

Greetings Keranos,

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the case just left to get
forgotten about until AMORC were contacted and told to do something
about it or remove it from the docket? Wasn't it left to gather dust
for 3 years? Correct me if any of this is wrong.

The filing of the suit by AMORC was a simple ploy to remove Gary as
the 'president' of the Order, this was then presented to the
membership in such a way as to have the members think and believe that
the Imperator was removed for embezzlement.

Sid

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Greetings Sid,

Most cases are left to gather dust.
As for Gary Stewart's removal, he's never explained how the financial
advisors got $750,000 for little more than hanging around. He's never
explained how or why the $3 million (or $2.5 million) got into an account in
Andorra in his name, not AMORC's. He never explained how he was able to
transfer money with only one signature, when he knew the practice of AMORC
was to have three signatures for the amounts in question.
As for the AMORC complaint filing, it is not just opinion or a version of
what happened; it is a sworn statement; if someone files a false claim or
lies about the pertinent facts, it is perjury. Prosecutors do like to go
after people for perjury. They did't go after anyone at AMORC for perjury.

Melanaigis
gls
2009-11-11 01:01:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Melanaigis;
Post by "" <x>
Greetings Sid,
Most cases are left to gather dust.
No they're not.
Post by "" <x>
As for Gary Stewart's removal, he's never explained how the financial
advisors got $750,000 for little more than hanging around.
Yes I have. Countless number of times in a lot of different places --
including this ng, and to you specifically, more times than I can
remember.
Post by "" <x>
He's never
explained how or why the $3 million (or $2.5 million) got into an account in
Andorra in his name, not AMORC's.
That's because the account in andorra wasn't in my name. It was a
supreme grand lodge account. You *might* want to consider that's why
the bank notified burnam the wire transfer had been completed.
Post by "" <x>
He never explained how he was able to
transfer money with only one signature, when he knew the practice of AMORC
was to have three signatures for the amounts in question.
Now this is where your comprehension skills in understanding the
language in the complaint is lacking. As well as your understanding of
amorc's business practices. Just out of curiosity, in 1989 I travelled
a lot. Since Christian was in France and Peter was in Australia, and I
was away. How did amorc transfer payroll into the proper account?
Post by "" <x>
As for the AMORC complaint filing, it is not just opinion or a version of
what happened; it is a sworn statement;
You are very naive if you believe that. You file what you have reason
to believe is true under legal definition to get the case to court.
And then during the discovery phase you start making sworn
testimonies, etc. etc.
Post by "" <x>
if someone files a false claim or
lies about the pertinent facts, it is perjury. Prosecutors do like to go
after people for perjury. They did't go after anyone at AMORC for perjury.
By your reasoning, since my counter complaint was just the opposite of
their complaint, and only one of us can be right, and since you
obviously want to believe them over me, how come the *prosecutors*
didn't go after me for "perjury"? Obviously they would've had to if
they weren't going to go after amorc ...
Post by "" <x>
Melanaigis
gls
gls
2009-11-11 00:25:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Melanaigis;
<snip>

Good for you, Melanaigis! You're starting to get the idea that you
need to qualify and give sources for your words. But unless you're
here to twist your source to support a pre-conceived agenda of yours,
you might want to consider reviewing the entirety of the complaint,
counter complaint, depositions, amended complaints, motions to
intervene and the final dismissal. After all, this isn't an ongoing
case. It has been resolved over 16 years ago.
Post by "" <x>
Post by gls
Banc Agricol had faxed Burnam to his office in Rosicrucian park a
confirmation that the money was received.  Burnam then copied that
confirmation and gave each of the newly expanded board directors a
copy -- which included the account name and number. Kinda begs the
question doesn't it? Why would the bank send burnam confirmation -- at
our hq no less? And why would all those financial wizards find it
necessary to ask me what the account number was while they're looking
at it?
So after AMORC tracked the money trail from the California bank to the
Pennsylvania bank to the Andorra bank, they got a confirmation that the
money was in Andorra and provided proof to the new Board of Directors so
they had proof of what you'd done so they could vote on your removal.
uh, no. There's another way of looking at -- the *correct* way. Banc
Agricol notified the *owner* of the account (that being the supreme
grand lodge, amorc -- the reason why the treasurer was notified) that
their funds had been received and their account was now active.
Post by "" <x>
Keranos
gls
"" <x>
2009-11-10 16:21:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"Sid" <***@T-Online.de> wrote in message news:e67e9163-f485-4441-8ba3-***@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...

How many signatures did one need to get the loan of $3,000,000 from
the bank?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sid

I still don't know about the loan signatures, but maybe this will shed some
light on the signature problem. This is from the suit filing by AMORC.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

48. Plaintiff is informed and believes that on or about March 28, 1990
defendant Stewart negligently directed the transfer of $3 million of
Rosicrucian funds from Silicon National Bank without the required Board
approval and without the three requisite authorized signatures proximately
causing the loss of $3 million by Rosicrucian.

49.Plaintiff is informed and believes that on or about April 5, 1990,
defendant Stewart negligently directed the transfer of $3 million of
Rosicrucian funds from Pennsylvania National Bank to Banc Agricol i
Comercial in Andorra, without the required Board approval and without the
three requisite authorized signatures, proximately causing the loss of $3
million by Rosicrucian.

50. Plaintiff is informed and believes that on or about April 2, 1990
defendant Silicon Valley Bank negligently transferred $3 million of
Rosicrucian funds to Pennsylvania National Bank, upon the direction of
defendant Stewart, and without Board approval and without the three
requisite authorized signatures proximately causing the loss of $3 million
by Rosicrucian.

51. Plaintiff is informed and believes that on or about April 5, 1990,
defendant Pittsburgh National Bank negligently transferred $3 million of
Rosicrucian funds to Bank Agricol i Comercial, upon the direction of
defendant Stewart, without Board approval and without the three requisite
authorized signatures, proximately causing the loss of $3 million by
Rosicrucian.
It's clear that AMORC believed that three signatures of the board members
were required to move the large amounts of money involved in the fiasco.

It's also clear that the Pittsburgh bank did not require three signatures.
This is the account set up by Gary Stewart's financial advisors. They lived
in the Pittsburgh area. It appears they set up the account so only one
signature was required and AMORC did not know this. However, if the
corporate minutes approved setting up the account or the contract with the
advisors approved setting up the account this way, then it is no longer a
clear case of embezzlement. One thing is clear, Christian Bernard had
nothing to do with any of this.

Keranos
gls
2009-11-10 00:21:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Melanaigis;
Stewart's website states that AMORC admitted Stewart did nothing wrong. THIS IS NOT TRUE.
The reference on the CR+C site is to the dismissal documents. Look
those docs up for yourself and you'll discover that it is true.
Gary Stewart started the story that Christian Bernard
"admitted" he knew Stewart did nothing wrong.
Yes, there's that admission from christian, too. Look it up and you'll
find his exact words.
Keranos
gls
gls
2009-11-10 00:01:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Melanaigis;
Post by "" <x>
If I were on a mission I would join every Rosicrucian discussion group on
the web to set things straight.
I said you were on a self-styled mission. I didn't say you were any
good at it.

gls
Sid
2009-11-07 17:55:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by "" <x>
Sid
One of the tragic aspects of the whole affair for AMORC was the loss of
noble well intentioned people like yourself. Some were driven out; others
just became so disgusted with the lack of information and disinformation
they left. The affair was very poorly handled. But to accept Stewart's
conspiracy theory, and lay all the blame at the feet of Christian Bernard is
a mistake.
I thought it was common knowledge that CB wanted to be Imperator. It
was a simple case of the Grand Masters just giving him what he wanted,
so that they could secure their positions within their jurisdictions.
Post by "" <x>
I think you were put out by the O'Neils.
The German GM expelled me from my Lodge & the German speaking
jurisdiction. Later my membership was just removed without notice
i.e., I received no further material from AMORC/TMO after I had just
paid dues for both Orders for a full year. The money was not
refunded..
Post by "" <x>
They were brought into AMORC by Gary Stewart, not Christian Bernard. Their first loyalty was to
Bhuddism, not AMORC or Rosicrucianism. The Grand Master was in the eighth or
ninth degree when all of this happened. I don't think she had any
preparation for the forces she had to deal with. It would take an advanced
heirarchy member to understand the forces working into the situation. The
next two Grand Masters appointed by CB were no better qualified.
But Gary Stewart changes his story depending on the moon phases. A few years
ago, the bank account in Pittsburgh was a trust; now it's an AMORC business
account. He claims he was the one who got the money back from Andorra the
night the Board demanded it be returned. (if that were true, it would not
have taken thirty days to get it back) In another version of the story, no
one was available in Andorra. You can't rely on any part of his story,
because he'll change it in the next telling to distract you from the germain
parts. So we can pick at the details forever. They will constantly change.
But let me ask you this, if I borrowed $3,000,000 against your assets,
deposited $500,000 in a bank which other people had access to, and those
people took all of the money in that account, then I deposited $2,500,000 of
your money in a bank in a foreign country, and you had no control over that
account, moreover, I refused to give you even the bank account number or any
accounting of why I took the money or what it was for, would you think that
I was engaged in criminal activity? Would you believe me if I told you it
was all Christian Bernard's idea and he was responsible?
One final point, there were enough heirarchy members among the Board of
Directors or the Grand Masters who voted unanimously to oust Gary Stewart,
to constitute themselves a Supreme Tribunal. Gary Stewart was given a chance
to speak at that meeting. They still removed him from office.
Melanaigis
They (the cabal) wanted Gary to 'dance to their tune', and when they
realised that this was not going to happen, a contingency plan was put
into action, and to put this plan into action all the Grand Masters
had to be members of the Board. It was more than a year before all
this started when the German GM told me that Gary was in serious
trouble.

The subversive activities of a number of people and different occult
groups within AMORC/TMO was going on during the time of Ralph Lewis.

Gary Stewart was the solution to the problem, but the Grand Masters
and others chose otherwise.
gls
2009-11-07 04:54:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi Melanaigis;
Usually people (like you, specifically) eventually realize that when
they take words out of context, misquote, twist, turn, lie, etc. wind
up looking very foolish in the end by their own hand. But I suppose,
with some people it takes longer than others ... But I must admit. You
are interesting. At least the way you present yourself and claim to
represent rosicrucianism and its best interests is interesting.
Post by "" <x>
I saw no reason to respond, since it was clear from what you wrote that
AMORC DID NOT HIDE OR FORGE DOCUMENTS.
INA sued amorc for fraud, not forgery. But you tell me, how come it
took three years for that dean whitter/schaa document to find its way
into the lawsuit? And when it did, it took only a couple of weeks for
amorc to do everything it could to extricate itself from the lawsuit?
Post by "" <x>
As for your implication that B Schaa "somehow committed fraud" by depositing
money in the Pittsburgh trust, let's revisit that.
No, Schaa didn't commit fraud, Irving Soderland did (on amorc's behalf
-- that's why amorc was sued) when he filed an insurance claim stating
that I and nelson transferred the funds (250,000 on Feb 15, 1990) and
that the court had found us guilty of embezzlement. Didn't you read
the court documents? You really should if you want to sound credible
When wanting to sound credible, researching is a good thing. Making
things up is a bad thing. And fishing for information just shows a
complete lack of any ability to effectivel conduct research.
Post by "" <x>
Your financial advisors
asked you to deposit $250,000 in that account and you refused. This shows
you , Gary Stewart, knew that they could raid that account at will and take
whatever they found there.
Once again, and again, and again; no. I refused because they had not
yet produced a written proposal and a business plan for the service
they were going to preforn for amorc. I said that very clearly at the
meeting at Dean Whitter on thurs. Feb 15th, 1990 when Henry asked for
the funds. And how many times do I have to tell you that the Pandora
Advisory Trust in Pittsburgh was *not* and amorc trust? I've explained
what it was many times over. The trust that was *going* to be
established in Andorra which had nothing to do with the Pittsburgh
trust nor were any of the people involved with the pittsburgh group
involved with the andorran trust. When all this happened, the account
in andorra was simply an amorc business account.
Post by "" <x>
You did not inform B Schaa of your decision not
to put funds into that account.
Considering he was present at the meeting held at the Dean Whitter
offices on Thursday, February 15, 1990 when that decision was made,
yes, I did inform him. We went there that morning along with nelson,
henry, and antonio to set up a margin account and he heard the
request, my response, and why I said no. Additionally, later that day
Burnam and I had a three hour financial strategy meeting from 16:30
until 19:30. I find it interesting that he never bothered to inform
*me* that he had the funds wired to pittsburgh. I never found out
about it until I was sued for it.
Post by "" <x>
Two weeks later you borrowed three million dollars
You forget ... there's a month called *march* that appears between the
months of February and April. Burnam wired funds on February 16th, I
wired funds on April 3rd.
Post by "" <x>
Why would you initiate the transfer just before a bank holiday?
Have you ever written a check 9 days before christmas? If so, why?
Post by "" <x>
There are other ways to transfer money other than by phone calls. Why didn't
you use a wire service to get the money returned? You could have used a
telegram to request the return of the money. You made no effort to return
the money and were clearly stalling.
Melanaigis, you don't get out much, do you?

I guess I should've asked the Pope to cancel Easter that year so the
banks would reopen so they could receive phone calls, telegrams, and
requests from wire services ...

But, do you know how the money was returned? In the wee hours of the
morning in California after I had been unable to rouse those inept
bankers who dared to celebrate a christian holiday recognized by their
church and their government, I called the andorran attorney to which
amorc had given a limited power of attorney to assist in our banking
transactions with Banc Agricol and instructed him to have the bank
return the funds to amorc when the bank reopened. And you know
something? That is how the funds were returned. It wasn't because
amorc sued them. That caused a delay of about 30 days. It wasn't
because someone else at amorc got involved, or their attorneys ...
Post by "" <x>
Keranos-Melanaigis
gls
gls
2009-10-30 03:11:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi Mago;
Post by Mago777
Where did H. Spencer Lewis get his PhD? What was his doctorate in? I
seemed
to have missed this in the AMORC writings.
He received two honorary doctorates. One from the Indian Academy of
Sciences from an affiliate in Los Angeles and the other from Emile
Dantinne's (Sar Hieronymous) Rose Croix Universitaire based out of
Brussels Belgium.

Incidentally, regarding your previous post a few weeks ago about the
police raid as depicted in the New York Sun, you might want to check
the Sun archives of a few days later to find the retraction. Seems the
individual who made the complaint to the police failed to mention that
the money she invested in the formation of amorc had been returned to
her prior to her complaint.

gls
Knows ALL
2010-01-16 23:16:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
This is a good question and one that many AMORC members may be asking
themselves and some non-members alike.

The year was 1988 and as a member in good standing with AMORC (i.e., my
dues were paid) I wrote Headquarters asking about the details of HSL's
PhD, in particular in what field was it and from what university. My
first inquiry was not replied to. A couple of months later I wrote
again asking the same question, this time adding that I needed the
answer to be able to answer questions from friends and acquaintances
that wanted to know more about the Order.

This time the Order answered and told me that HSL's degrees were
*HONORARY* (emphasis mine), and two in total. One from the "India
Academy of Sciences" (will never forget that name) and the other I
forgot by now.

In summary, AMORC admitted that HSL did not have a real PhD. That's
because honorary degrees don't count.

HSL was an advertising man. One of the "Mad Men" of his time. And he did
sell AMORC good.



-----------------------------------------------------------
Post by Mago777
Where did H. Spencer Lewis get his PhD? What was his doctorate in? I
seemed
to have missed this in the AMORC writings.
Knows ALL
2010-10-30 15:41:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mago777
Where did H. Spencer Lewis get his PhD? What was his doctorate in? I
seemed
to have missed this in the AMORC writings.
AMORC admitted to me in a letter of 1988 after having to ask *twice*,
that HSL only had two "honorary" PhD. degrees, one from the "India
Academy of Sciences" (non-existent?) and the other I forget.

In short, HSL had *NO* PhD whatsoever.
"" <x>
2010-11-07 18:47:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
HSL wrote a couple dozen books which have sold several hundred thousand
copies.

HSL wrote thousands of pages in monographs describing and explaining the
Rosicrucian teachings.

HSL overcame enormous opposition and started the largest and most successful
mystery school since the rites at Eleusis were celebrated. Membership is
over 250,000. Millions have studied its teachings in the past hundred years.
AMORC's influence is world wide.

HSL separated Rosicrucianism from the superstitious accretions fobbed on it
in the past 500 years.

What has KNOWS-ALL ever accomplished???

His only ability is to wallow in his bitter failure and throw his excrement
at better men than himself.

Melanaigis

---------------------------------------------------------
Post by Mago777
Where did H. Spencer Lewis get his PhD? What was his doctorate in? I
seemed
to have missed this in the AMORC writings.
AMORC admitted to me in a letter of 1988 after having to ask *twice*, that
HSL only had two "honorary" PhD. degrees, one from the "India Academy of
Sciences" (non-existent?) and the other I forget.
In short, HSL had *NO* PhD whatsoever.
Al Rowe
2010-11-08 17:33:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
From Newsgroup: alt.amorc
HSL wrote a couple dozen books which have sold several hundred thousand
copies.
HSL wrote thousands of pages in monographs describing and explaining the
Rosicrucian teachings.
HSL overcame enormous opposition and started the largest and most
successful mystery school since the rites at Eleusis were celebrated.
Membership is over 250,000. Millions have studied its teachings in the past
hundred years. AMORC's influence is world wide.
HSL separated Rosicrucianism from the superstitious accretions fobbed on it
in the past 500 years.
What has KNOWS-ALL ever accomplished???
His only ability is to wallow in his bitter failure and throw his excrement
at better men than himself.
Melanaigis
---------------------------------------------------------
Post by Knows ALL
Post by Mago777
Where did H. Spencer Lewis get his PhD? What was his doctorate in? I
seemed
to have missed this in the AMORC writings.
AMORC admitted to me in a letter of 1988 after having to ask *twice*,
that HSL only had two "honorary" PhD. degrees, one from the "India
Academy of Sciences" (non-existent?) and the other I forget.
In short, HSL had *NO* PhD whatsoever.
--- Synchronet 3.14a-Win32 NewsLink 1.85
Good point. "Ye shall know them by their fruits".

Peace profound

AMORC study group
Cleveland, Ohio. USA
--- Synchronet 3.14a-Win32 NewsLink 1.85
:: OFN Message Gateway :: - http://ohiofreenet.org - Mega newsgroup server
"" <x>
2010-11-09 07:15:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi Al

Good luck with the study group.
Incidentally, I'd place HSL's accomplishments above any PhD I've ever met;
and I've met hundreds.

Melanaigis

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