Discussion:
Poor first impression of Rosicrucianism
(too old to reply)
NORTHMAN
2008-05-05 15:20:32 UTC
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A visitor to our house came to the room where I have my computer and
my home sanctum. This made him become curious about the Rosicrucians
and he did some web searches to get more
information. He told me that he was taken aback when he ran into
accounts of an Imperator involved in a schism within AMORC and how the
arguments are still raging today. Needless to say this turned him off
and he told me that he would never join anything that is so obviously
controversial and at war with itself, the way some religious sects
are. He explained that he is looking for inspiration and guidance for
a more serene and harmonious way of life and that he can't see himself
joining with people who themselves are not acting peacefully and
serenely amongst themselves.

Well, I believe he made the right choice for now.
Sid
2008-05-06 22:34:11 UTC
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Post by NORTHMAN
A visitor to our house came to the room where I have my computer and
my home sanctum. This made him become curious  about the Rosicrucians
and he did some web searches to get more
information. He told me that he was taken aback when he ran into
accounts of an Imperator involved in a schism within AMORC and how the
arguments are still raging today. Needless to say this turned him off
and he told me that he would never join anything that is so obviously
controversial and at war with itself, the way some religious sects
are. He explained that he is looking for inspiration and guidance for
a more serene and harmonious way of life and that he can't see himself
joining with people who themselves are not acting peacefully and
serenely amongst themselves.
Well, I believe he made the right choice for now.
Why don't you give your visitor a more positive view of the Mystical
path so that he might become interested in the membership of AMORC?

Let the dogs bark
Do not be distracted by the noise
Know when not to interfere

Sadly, we are often too easily distracted by the noise of the world.

Sid
LLL/777/+++
Ben Scaro
2008-05-07 11:35:01 UTC
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If your ‘visitor’ took a more seasoned and reasoned look he might see
that there’s only one person here for whom those arguments are still
raging.

That doesn’t seem like a war so much as one person who feels a bit
stung by former scars and likes to come back from time to time for a
yell.

I don’t think AMORC buys into any explicit arguments though very few
of its members do, and I don’t know that any of the websites
supporting the other side are still online.

I think ‘minor squabble’ might be a more accurate description; I’d
challenge your visitor to find any path that doesn’t have such
ructions every now and then.

Further, it’s a squabble between a very few members of only two
orders.

There are a number of decent Rosicrucian orders you could direct your
friend to that aren’t involved in this matter.

If you think laterally, in the spirit of being serene and harmonious
ie, rising above mere sectarianism, as you and your friend apparently
desire to do, there are a number of good options to suggest to a
friend. The Clymer group, the Rosicrucian Fellowship, the BOTA, FLO,
there are many choices.

I’m also surprised you come to this as an (apparent) outsider to the
issues, but in your other post you already seem to have taken sides,
ie you seem unable to help but have a shot in the ‘war’ yourself.

I note that these two posts are your first post under this name,
indicating that you registered precisely to make this point. That in
itself is highly unusual.

If you were to be completely honest with yourself, are you sure this
is your first foray into this area?

In its most meaningful and useful sense, that *can* be a rhetorical
question, by the way.

Ben
Post by NORTHMAN
A visitor to our house came to the room where I have my computer and
my home sanctum. This made him become curious  about the Rosicrucians
and he did some web searches to get more
information. He told me that he was taken aback when he ran into
accounts of an Imperator involved in a schism within AMORC and how the
arguments are still raging today. Needless to say this turned him off
and he told me that he would never join anything that is so obviously
controversial and at war with itself, the way some religious sects
are. He explained that he is looking for inspiration and guidance for
a more serene and harmonious way of life and that he can't see himself
joining with people who themselves are not acting peacefully and
serenely amongst themselves.
Well, I believe he made the right choice for now.
NORTHMAN
2008-05-07 14:54:28 UTC
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Post by Ben Scaro
If you were to be completely honest with yourself, are you sure this
is your first foray into this area?
In its most meaningful and useful sense, that *can* be a rhetorical
question, by the way.
Ben
Ben, your comments are very much appreciated and very perceptive.

I have already done what Sid suggested in his/her comment. Still,
there
will be others, I am sure, who will have similar experiences. Yes, I
did join
to make my two points. One, relating to Fr. Stewart and the other
relating
to the matter above. Of course this is not my first foray into the
area of
the schism I referred to and being dismayed about the endless blaming
and re-hashing of what is by now *ancient history* since I was an
active and dedicated Rosicrucian when it happened. For at least the
last ten years I
gave it no more thought and believed that everyone had moved on and
had
*buried the hatchet* - alas, not so!

Thanks again for your thoughtful analysis! I have said my piece (which
actually
includes some good advice) and I shall refrain from commenting again.

PP fr. N.
Ben Scaro
2008-05-07 16:10:32 UTC
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For at least the
Post by NORTHMAN
last ten years I
gave it no more thought and believed that everyone had moved on and
had
*buried the hatchet* - alas, not so!
Thanks again for your thoughtful analysis! I have said my piece (which
actually
includes some good advice) and I shall refrain from commenting again.
PP fr. N.
I think the hatchet has largely been buried, or at least rusted away
through lack of use. I suppose there are always one or two who hold
onto old grudges.

I am not sure why you would want to refrain from commenting though.

Ben
NORTHMAN
2008-05-15 03:17:00 UTC
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Post by NORTHMAN
For at least the
Post by NORTHMAN
last ten years I
gave it no more thought and believed that everyone had moved on and
had
*buried the hatchet* - alas, not so!
Thanks again for your thoughtful analysis! I have said my piece (which
actually
includes some good advice) and I shall refrain from commenting again.
PP fr. N.
I think the hatchet has largely been buried, or at least rusted away
through lack of use. I suppose there are always one or two who hold
onto old grudges.
I am not sure why you would want to refrain from commenting though.
Ben
Hi Ben, I shall indeed make another comment adding to my post of
May 5th. The episode I described happened some years ago. My
visitor did (at his home) a general search of Rosicrucianism after his
curiosity
had been aroused by seeing evidence that I am a Rosicrucian.

After he had visited some Rosicrucian websites he told me that he had
encountered stories about some kind of problems, schism, AMORC and
controversy involving some Imperator, lawsuits etc. This turned him
off
to the point that he would not join ANYTHING Rosicrucian because he
had
seen evidence that there were Rosicrucian groups at odds with each
other.
He was looking for something peaceful and harmonious.

I told him that it was his own personal choice and therefore the right
thing
to do for now. Perhaps at a later time he may have decided to
investigate
some more; who knows?

Never did I tell him (as GLS has concluded) to stay away from AMORC
or that I was disappointed with AMORC. He may have gotten some of
his information from the GLS website where all the controversial stuff
was available for public perusal and that is what made him decide
to back off altogether because he got a bad first impression of
Rosicrucians in general.

Fast forward! At the beginning of May I ran across this group,
alt.amorc.
What is the first thing I see? GLS being engaged (STILL - after all
these
years! ) in regurgitating the old accusations, arguments and counter
arguments! He is obviously being baited by some for whatever reason.

It is too bad. Some of his responses to me make me wish that I had
refrained from posting a real experience and the disappointment
that I genuinely feel with the obvious fact that his *hatchet* is far
from
having been buried.

I may be taken to task again by GLS for what I am posting
now. It doesn't matter. He sees the world in his own way and so do I.

I have decided not to respond to any of the GLS matters on this site
in the
future and he will appreciate that, I am sure. Over and out!

Greetings to you, Ben!

Ciao, Fr. N.
gls
2008-05-15 07:18:22 UTC
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Hi NM;

On Wed, 14 May 2008 20:17:00 -0700 (PDT), NORTHMAN
<***@hotmail.com> wrote:

<snip>
Post by NORTHMAN
After he had visited some Rosicrucian websites he told me that he had
encountered stories about some kind of problems, schism, AMORC and
controversy involving some Imperator, lawsuits etc. This turned him
off
to the point that he would not join ANYTHING Rosicrucian because he
had
seen evidence that there were Rosicrucian groups at odds with each
other.
He was looking for something peaceful and harmonious.
I would have referred him to the fellowship or lectorum which are R+C
organizations that are more religious in nature if he was turned of
with amorc or anything I was involved in. But that's me. You did what
you did and yur explanation here is a bit more clear than what I
perceived initially ... at least I understood it more clearly.
Post by NORTHMAN
I told him that it was his own personal choice and therefore the right
thing
to do for now. Perhaps at a later time he may have decided to
investigate
some more; who knows?
My reading of your initial posts were a bit different. I understand
your position a bit better now.
Post by NORTHMAN
Never did I tell him (as GLS has concluded) to stay away from AMORC
or that I was disappointed with AMORC.
That's good. You shouldn't be disappointed with amorc as it can still
take you a long way on the R+C and mystical path if you let it. But
the brevity with which you wrote made your attitude sound different to
me. Could just be my understanding of what you wrote and not
necessarily a reflection of what you wrote.

<snip>
Post by NORTHMAN
Fast forward! At the beginning of May I ran across this group,
alt.amorc.
What is the first thing I see? GLS being engaged (STILL - after all
these
years! ) in regurgitating the old accusations, arguments and counter
arguments! He is obviously being baited by some for whatever reason.
Yeah, melanaigis likes to revert to the 1990 affair when he gets a bit
lazy in addressing other matters of more interest -- like a discussion
on the origins of the R+C. I don't buy the egyptian and most
assuredly, the dionysian roots, but that's me. I wish he would choose
to discuss that as it's far more interesting.

However, for what it's worth. 1990 is an historical event and, in my
opinion, most certainly needs to be addressed and should be addressed
by *all* parties involved. Unfortunately, I am the only one who will
discuss it. My motives are purely historical and my intent is to
answer any question one may have as those questions are still coming
in and are only coming in because amorc refuses to speak openly about
it.

<snip>
Post by NORTHMAN
I may be taken to task again by GLS for what I am posting
now.
I apologise if I came across that way as it was not, nor is it my
intent to take you to task. It's just my nature to deal with things
directly as I'm getting too old to beat around the bush. If I
misunderstand what you say, tell me and I'll adjust. In the interim,
I'll respond to what I understand is being said. If I misunderstand,
tell me as I have no problem with that.
Post by NORTHMAN
It doesn't matter. He sees the world in his own way and so do I.
and that is the way it should be with everyone, in my opinion. We
should all be able to discuss any matter that concerns us or is of
interest to us regardless of our opinion ... without getting our
dander up ...
Post by NORTHMAN
I have decided not to respond to any of the GLS matters on this site
in the
future and he will appreciate that, I am sure. Over and out!
Don't do that on my account. Respond to what you want to respond to
and if you disagree with me, that's quite alright. I don't get upset
with what people write and I respect what people have to say unless
they get close minded and bigoted.
Post by NORTHMAN
Greetings to you, Ben!
Ciao, Fr. N.
best

gls
NORTHMAN
2008-05-15 17:45:53 UTC
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Post by gls
Hi NM;
On Wed, 14 May 2008 20:17:00 -0700 (PDT), NORTHMAN
<snip>
Post by NORTHMAN
After he had visited some Rosicrucian websites he told me that he had
encountered stories about some kind of problems, schism, AMORC and
controversy involving some Imperator, lawsuits etc. This turned him
off
to the point that he would not join ANYTHING Rosicrucian because he
had
seen evidence that there were Rosicrucian groups at odds with each
other.
He was looking for something peaceful and harmonious.
I would have referred him to the fellowship or lectorum which are R+C
organizations that are more religious in nature if he was turned of
with amorc or anything I was involved in. But that's me. You did what
you did and yur explanation here is a bit more clear than what I
perceived initially ... at least I understood it more clearly.
Post by NORTHMAN
I told him that it was his own personal choice and therefore the right
thing
to do for now. Perhaps at a later time he may have decided to
investigate
some more; who knows?
My reading of your initial posts were a bit different. I understand
your position a bit better now.
Post by NORTHMAN
Never did I tell him (as GLS has concluded) to stay away from AMORC
or that I was disappointed with AMORC.
That's good. You shouldn't be disappointed with amorc as it can still
take you a long way on the R+C and mystical path if you let it. But
the brevity with which you wrote made your attitude sound different to
me. Could just be my understanding of what you wrote and not
necessarily a reflection of what you wrote.
<snip>
Post by NORTHMAN
Fast forward! At the beginning of May I ran across this group,
alt.amorc.
What is the first thing I see? GLS being engaged (STILL - after all
these
years! ) in regurgitating the old accusations, arguments and counter
arguments! He is obviously being baited by some for whatever reason.
Yeah, melanaigis likes to revert to the 1990 affair when he gets a bit
lazy in addressing other matters of more interest -- like a discussion
on the origins of the R+C. I don't buy the egyptian and most
assuredly, the dionysian roots, but that's me. I wish he would choose
to discuss that as it's far more interesting.
However, for what it's worth. 1990 is an historical event and, in my
opinion, most certainly needs to be addressed and should be addressed
by *all* parties involved. Unfortunately, I am the only one who will
discuss it. My motives are purely historical and my intent is to
answer any question one may have as those questions are still coming
in and are only coming in because amorc refuses to speak openly about
it.
<snip>
Post by NORTHMAN
I may be taken to task again by GLS for what I am posting
now.
I apologise if I came across that way as it was not, nor is it my
intent to take you to task. It's just my nature to deal with things
directly as I'm getting too old to beat around the bush. If I
misunderstand what you say, tell me and I'll adjust. In the interim,
I'll respond to what I understand is being said. If I misunderstand,
tell me as I have no problem with that.
Post by NORTHMAN
It doesn't matter. He sees the world in his own way and so do I.
and that is the way it should be with everyone, in my opinion. We
should all be able to discuss any matter that concerns us or is of
interest to us regardless of our opinion ... without getting our
dander up ...
Post by NORTHMAN
I have decided not to respond to any of the GLS matters on this site
in the
future and he will appreciate that, I am sure. Over and out!
Don't do that on my account. Respond to what you want to respond to
and if you disagree with me, that's quite alright. I don't get upset
with what people write and I respect what people have to say unless
they get close minded and bigoted.
Post by NORTHMAN
Greetings to you, Ben!
Ciao, Fr. N.
best
gls
Thank you, GLS! Your point that the brevity of my
first comment led to an interpretation by you which
was not in tune with what I intended to express is
well taken! That of course was my fault.

You say emphatically that 1990 is a historical event
that needs to be discussed and that you are the only
one willing to discuss it since AMORC refuses to
speak openly about it.

Is it possible that AMORC has moved on since then
and since all the lawsuits have been settled out of
court (I imagine that is what happened) it has been
decided to relegate the whole episode to history?

When I settled out of court with an investment firm
which had mishandled some funds I had to sign a
confidentiality agreement which prohibited me then
as it still does today to discuss the settlement and
any of the disclosed (under oath) matters in public.
By the same token my former adversary must adhere
to the same privacy conditions.

Is it possible that the 1990 episode was settled with
similar confidentiality restrictions?

The Cosmic will show the way to achieve harmony
in the affairs of humans, but it will never force or
mandate harmony on anyone who does not see a
need or an urge to head in that direction.

The tone of your exchanges of opinions with melanaigis
prompted me to make my initial comments. It makes me
cringe, to be truthful. I am not going back to read them
again, but I think he is the one that makes the most
aggressive comments and accusations. One can reply
to them or......simply ignore them. A philosopher said
that an honest man can never be insulted. Ignoring insults
are not an admission of guilt.

Nobody is perfect and that includes virtually every human
effort, religions, sciences and even mystical organizations
and the people who serve(d) as their leaders. That's life.

In any case, my affiliation with AMORC is as strong
as ever and has been entirely positive over all these
decades and very rewarding. The scope of my membership
has changed since I completed all the available study
material. Everything else is the same.

May You Enjoy Abundant Cosmic Blessings.

fr. N.
gls
2008-05-16 21:00:08 UTC
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On Thu, 15 May 2008 10:45:53 -0700 (PDT), NORTHMAN
<***@hotmail.com> wrote:

<snip>
Post by NORTHMAN
You say emphatically that 1990 is a historical event
that needs to be discussed and that you are the only
one willing to discuss it since AMORC refuses to
speak openly about it.
Is it possible that AMORC has moved on since then
I hope they have, but I don't think today's issue is about moving on
and being at peace with what happened 18 years ago. I am and I assume
amorc is as well. The issue is how to deal with the historical event
in an objective way so as to address the concerns people have openly
and objectively because no matter how many years in the future we
travel, so long as there is an amorc, mystical, occult, and
Rosicrucian movements, there will be people who are going to want to
know what happened. amorc was an integral part and played an important
role in the esoteric world. To be evasive, to cover up, or to be
dishonest about what occured will create confusion and other problems.
Post by NORTHMAN
and since all the lawsuits have been settled out of
court (I imagine that is what happened) it has been
decided to relegate the whole episode to history?
Yes, all lawsuits have been either dropped or settled out of court
insofar as I am aware. There were some residual suits, such as
wrongful discharge etc. of which I am unaware of how they were
resolved. However, relegating the whole episode to history and then
forgetting about it really isn't going to do much. It's been over 100
years, and people are still talking about the dispute between de Guita
and Peladan; it's been well over 50 years since the dissolution of the
FUDOSI and many today still want to know what happened there ... and
there will be a time long after we're gone that what is happening now
will be important for some. I don't think our legact should be one of
hiding and covering up.
Post by NORTHMAN
When I settled out of court with an investment firm
which had mishandled some funds I had to sign a
confidentiality agreement which prohibited me then
as it still does today to discuss the settlement and
any of the disclosed (under oath) matters in public.
By the same token my former adversary must adhere
to the same privacy conditions.
Is it possible that the 1990 episode was settled with
similar confidentiality restrictions?
The only confidentiality clause of which I am aware is the INS
insurance fraud suit filed against amorc in 1993. When amorc sought to
settle with me, there was no mention of any confidentiality. If there
was with the other litigants, I don't know about it. So no, there is
no legal reason why the matter cannot be discussed fully and
completely except for the settlement amount amorc paid their insurance
carriers and the particulars of the settlement agreement.

<snip>
Post by NORTHMAN
The tone of your exchanges of opinions with melanaigis
prompted me to make my initial comments. It makes me
cringe, to be truthful. I am not going back to read them
again, but I think he is the one that makes the most
aggressive comments and accusations. One can reply
to them or......simply ignore them. A philosopher said
that an honest man can never be insulted. Ignoring insults
are not an admission of guilt.
My responses to melanaigis was not motivated by his insults,
aggressive comments or accusations. They were in response to his
misrepresentations of the R+C in various forms.

<snip>
Post by NORTHMAN
In any case, my affiliation with AMORC is as strong
as ever and has been entirely positive over all these
decades and very rewarding.
that is good to hear.
Post by NORTHMAN
The scope of my membership
has changed since I completed all the available study
material. Everything else is the same.
are they still issuing the Plane degree monographs?
Post by NORTHMAN
May You Enjoy Abundant Cosmic Blessings.
fr. N.
best

gls
Melanaigis
2008-05-17 00:54:17 UTC
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Post by gls
Yeah, melanaigis likes to revert to the 1990 affair when he gets a bit
lazy in addressing other matters of more interest -- like a discussion
on the origins of the R+C. I don't buy the egyptian and most
assuredly, the dionysian roots, but that's me. I wish he would choose
to discuss that as it's far more interesting.
-----------------------------
Strange inconsistancy here. Gary Stewart denies the Egyptian roots of the
Rosicrucians, as stated by the Lewis's, yet his website claims the roots are
in Egypt. This is from his site, "As members of the Confraternity of the
Rose Cross (CR+C) we know that our organization is over three thousand years
old." Moreover he still has articles on his website written by Cathari, who
was the object of some of his vile insults; he derided her research but is
quite willing to freely use her labor on his behalf.
http://www.crcsite.org/dee1.htm This was written by Cathari.

Obviously deception is part of his modus operandi.

So noble an imperator!
----------------------------
Post by gls
However, for what it's worth. 1990 is an historical event and, in my
opinion, most certainly needs to be addressed and should be addressed
by *all* parties involved. Unfortunately, I am the only one who will
discuss it. My motives are purely historical and my intent is to
answer any question one may have as those questions are still coming
in and are only coming in because amorc refuses to speak openly about
it.
--------------------
Another inconsistancy; GLS derides me for discussing the events of 1990 and
has assembled his entourage to insult and drive me off the group, then
claims he is the only one willing to discuss the events of 1990!
His motives are not purely historical, as he claims.

Keranos Melanaigis


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
gls
2008-05-17 04:03:55 UTC
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Hello Melanaigis;

Thanks for pointing out our website.

On Fri, 16 May 2008 20:54:17 -0400, "Melanaigis"
Post by Melanaigis
Post by gls
Yeah, melanaigis likes to revert to the 1990 affair when he gets a bit
lazy in addressing other matters of more interest -- like a discussion
on the origins of the R+C. I don't buy the egyptian and most
assuredly, the dionysian roots, but that's me. I wish he would choose
to discuss that as it's far more interesting.
-----------------------------
Strange inconsistancy here. Gary Stewart denies the Egyptian roots of the
Rosicrucians, as stated by the Lewis's, yet his website claims the roots are
in Egypt. This is from his site, "As members of the Confraternity of the
Rose Cross (CR+C) we know that our organization is over three thousand years
old."
We've talked about your research methodologies before. You would do a
lot better for your cause if you at least tried for a modicum of
accuracy. The quote is from an article I wrote, but if you notice
there was no mention of Egypt. Several paragraphs later, I explain
what I meant. Nevertheless, 3000 years ago was the birth of what has
developed into Western Society. Part of that development came from
Egypt, and part in other areas of the world. As I said in the article,
wheels were set into motion at that time meaning that several thousand
years later, rosicrucian mysticism evolved out of the Western thinking
patterns.

As to a mention of R+C roots being in Egypt, there probably is such a
mention but offhand, I couldn't tell you where it is. But if you want
to look, I would suggest starting with Dr. John Palo's articles as he
believed the R+C did originate in Egypt in disagreement to me. But as
neither I nor the CR+C censures anyone, they can present their views
and have them published on the website so long as they meet our
publishing standards. What you don't seem to understand is that the
R+C is about truth and the sharing of ideas meaning we embrace
differences ... but, I fear I'm talking to a brick wall with you but
if you ever decide to actually give a point of view, I'm sure I and
many others on this ng would like to listen but I warn you, people
with discernment generally want to hear a reasoned argument. The
"because I say so" presentation will be picked apart and as insulted
as you might feel because someone may question your reasoning, such
questioning is not an insult.
Post by Melanaigis
Moreover he still has articles on his website written by Cathari, who
was the object of some of his vile insults; he derided her research but is
quite willing to freely use her labor on his behalf.
http://www.crcsite.org/dee1.htm This was written by Cathari.
First of all, it's the CR+C website, not mine. And second, anyone,
CR+C affiliate or not. may present an article for inclusion and once
accepted, will stay until the author wants it removed. So, feel free
to present an article on why you believe the roots of the R+C
originate from egypt, or better yet, your reasoning on why you feel
that the Cult of Melanaigis contributed to the origin of the R+C. Or,
better yet since you have such a hatred for myself and the CR+C, post
something intelligent here. Linda's article is there because she
wanted to submit one.
Post by Melanaigis
Obviously deception is part of his modus operandi.
So noble an imperator!
----------------------------
Post by gls
However, for what it's worth. 1990 is an historical event and, in my
opinion, most certainly needs to be addressed and should be addressed
by *all* parties involved. Unfortunately, I am the only one who will
discuss it. My motives are purely historical and my intent is to
answer any question one may have as those questions are still coming
in and are only coming in because amorc refuses to speak openly about
it.
--------------------
Another inconsistancy; GLS derides me for discussing the events of 1990 and
has assembled his entourage to insult and drive me off the group,
What entrouge would that be? And, don't kid yourself. I'm quite ok
with seeing you post here although I wish you would say something more
meaningful instead of your silliness which isn't doing your reputation
any good. But, it's your reputation so do as you like.
Post by Melanaigis
then
claims he is the only one willing to discuss the events of 1990!
Here is an example of your silliness. I wrote it should be addressed
by all parties involved. You were not involved. Stay in context.
Post by Melanaigis
His motives are not purely historical, as he claims.
Keranos Melanaigis
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
gls
Melanaigis
2008-05-17 12:27:07 UTC
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Post by gls
Hello Melanaigis;
Thanks for pointing out our website.
On Fri, 16 May 2008 20:54:17 -0400, "Melanaigis"
Post by Melanaigis
Post by gls
Yeah, melanaigis likes to revert to the 1990 affair when he gets a bit
lazy in addressing other matters of more interest -- like a discussion
on the origins of the R+C. I don't buy the egyptian and most
assuredly, the dionysian roots, but that's me. I wish he would choose
to discuss that as it's far more interesting.
-----------------------------
Strange inconsistancy here. Gary Stewart denies the Egyptian roots of the
Rosicrucians, as stated by the Lewis's, yet his website claims the roots are
in Egypt. This is from his site, "As members of the Confraternity of the
Rose Cross (CR+C) we know that our organization is over three thousand years
old."
====
Post by gls
We've talked about your research methodologies before. You would do a
lot better for your cause if you at least tried for a modicum of
accuracy. The quote is from an article I wrote, but if you notice
there was no mention of Egypt. Several paragraphs later, I explain
what I meant. Nevertheless, 3000 years ago was the birth of what has
developed into Western Society. Part of that development came from
Egypt, and part in other areas of the world. As I said in the article,
wheels were set into motion at that time meaning that several thousand
years later, rosicrucian mysticism evolved out of the Western thinking
patterns.
-------------
The three thousand year statement on your website is clearly a ploy to suck
in AMORC members by pretending to represent the ideas promulgated by the
Lewis's. The rest of your statement is an example of your deviousness and
capacity for lying. You do the same thing regarding the reasons for your
removal from AMORC. The rest of your statement is self serving tripe.

-----------
Post by gls
Post by Melanaigis
Post by gls
opinion, most certainly needs to be addressed and should be addressed
by *all* parties involved. Unfortunately, I am the only one who will
discuss it. My motives are purely historical and my intent is to
answer any question one may have as those questions are still coming
in and are only coming in because amorc refuses to speak openly about
it.
--------------------
----------------------
AMORC does not want to get into a pissing match with a skunk; the same type
of pissing match you are trying to start now with your insults. You do this
to create a diversion whenever the questions get too close to the truth you
are intent on hiding.
Most people do not have enough experience in the world to ask the right
questions, or to perceive when you have served them a pile of tripe on a
platter and called it truth.
Unfortunately for you it is possible to read your version of what happened
(as posted on this newsgroup) and uncover enough truth and deception to form
an accurate opinion of the events.
You would like to limit all comments about 1990 to your spin; so you try any
way possible to drive off any opposing voice. This explains your statement
below which claims I have no right to ask questions. As a heirarchy member,
I was involved and have the right to question you. I've questioned you in
the past and your evasions are here on this newsgroup for all to see.
-------------------------
Post by gls
Here is an example of your silliness. I wrote it should be addressed
by all parties involved. You were not involved. Stay in context.
Post by Melanaigis
His motives are not purely historical, as he claims.
Keranos Melanaigis
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
gls
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
gls
2008-05-17 15:39:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 17 May 2008 08:27:07 -0400, "Melanaigis"
<***@yahoo.com> wrote:

<snip>

Hello Melanaigis;

For a while there I thought you might be on the verge of posting
something useful and interesting, so I responded. But I guess I am
guilty of feeding the resident troll ... anyway, I can see why you
were expelled or on the verge of being expelled from amorc (I forget
which you said it was) but be that as it may, I'll remain on the
lookout for something of substance from you, but, I won't hold my
breath. Try to get some rest, or help, or something as you seem to be
wound pretty tight.

gls
Ben Scaro
2008-05-17 13:22:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Mr Gleason,

If you thought that 'Cathari' and her allies had a case, why did you
run away from alt.amorc as far as you feet could carry you once their
harassment and dubious claims were exposed ?

You have never been able to explain this and it's why you are never
able to regain any credibility.

There is no 'entourage'. There never was.

To the madman, the sane world inevitably appears to be a conspiracy,
since he has no other way of accounting why everyone else opposes his
views.

Ben
Post by Melanaigis
Moreover he still has articles on his website written by Cathari, who
was the object of some of his vile insults; he derided her research but is
quite willing to freely use her labor on his behalf.
http://www.crcsite.org/dee1.htmThis was written by Cathari.
Melanaigis
2008-05-17 14:44:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Run away???
I'm the only one who has posted articles here for years. When I stop posting
all discussion ends, the group goes dormant.

You and the Stewart entourage post only attacks and distraction; you never
post an original article or even a single insight into occultism,
rosicrucianism or anything else. Neither does GLS, despite his pretensions
to being the leader of an authentic Rosicrucian group. One would expect some
original insights or postulations from you people; but none of you have
any. When I compare your diatribes and insults to the volumes of material
written by the Lewis's, you, GLS and the rest of you become laughable
posers. That doesn't say anything good about the magnetic chain you are a
part of. Your raison d'etre is to malign the Lewis's and the ideas they put
forward. Yet none of you have the ability to attack the ideas, so you attack
their character with wild insinuations and accusations.

As for Cathari, her husband and GLS, there are some personal matters between
them which I am not privy to; nor do their personal fights belong on this
newsgroup. You and the rest of the entourage simply revel in the malice
engendered by their personal squabble. It is a manifestation of your
character and of the entourage you are attracted to and associate yourself
with.

Keranos
-------------------------------------
Post by Ben Scaro
Mr Gleason,
If you thought that 'Cathari' and her allies had a case, why did you
run away from alt.amorc as far as you feet could carry you once their
harassment and dubious claims were exposed ?
You have never been able to explain this and it's why you are never
able to regain any credibility.
There is no 'entourage'. There never was.
To the madman, the sane world inevitably appears to be a conspiracy,
since he has no other way of accounting why everyone else opposes his
views.
Ben
Post by Melanaigis
Moreover he still has articles on his website written by Cathari, who
was the object of some of his vile insults; he derided her research but is
quite willing to freely use her labor on his behalf.
http://www.crcsite.org/dee1.htmThis was written by Cathari.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Ben Scaro
2008-05-17 17:23:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Melanaigis
Run away???
Yep. You turned tail almost on the same day they did and vanished for
about a year.

If your mind or memory is so disconnected from your own actions, then
check the record of your postings on here, it bears this out.


Ben
Melanaigis
2008-05-17 19:39:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Your goal, and the goal of the Lewis hating harpies is to silence any voice
but your own. That's the reason you did a search on another poster, hoping
to dig up some dirt you can use to intimidate them off the newsgroup. If you
create a hostile environment you can keep anyone from posting who does not
agree with your opinion that Harvey Lewis was a great con man and
mountebank.

But you have never posted anything except attacks and accusations. None of
the Lewis hating harpies have any insight into Rosicrucianism or mysticism.
None of them including their imperator can write a cogent article on
Rosicrucian principles. Their sole ability is to repeat opposition research
directed at the Lewis's. You will not find a single post by any of them
expounding mystic prinsiples. The best they can do is copy the work done by
the Lewis's, even to the point of copying the monographs; they can't
formulate an original thought. In fact, they are inconstant in their
beliefs. You will find most of them defending Paul Foster Case and BOTA on
this newsgroup. Gary Stewart defended Paul Foster Case and recomended his
book. The man and his group deny man has free will. In a recent post Gary
Stewart now believes man has free will. This is the problem with the
influences from most occult groups. Their members are susceptible to
whatever blows on the wind.

As for my lack of posts during the last year; that's my affair and none of
yours. The group was dormant when I started posting a few months ago. Once
again I have attracted some true seekers as well as the scum that lives and
works in the shadow.

Keranos

-------------------------------------------------
Post by Ben Scaro
Post by Melanaigis
Run away???
Yep. You turned tail almost on the same day they did and vanished for
about a year.
If your mind or memory is so disconnected from your own actions, then
check the record of your postings on here, it bears this out.
Ben
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Julie Altswitch
2008-05-18 02:26:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Melanaigis
Your goal, and the goal of the Lewis hating harpies is to silence any voice
but your own. <snip>
create a hostile environment you can keep anyone from posting who does not
agree with your opinion that Harvey Lewis was a great con man and
mountebank.
But you have never posted anything except attacks and accusations. None of
the Lewis hating harpies have any insight into Rosicrucianism or mysticism.
<snip>
again I have attracted some true seekers as well as the scum that lives and
works in the shadow.
Keranos
-------------------------------------------------
<snip>
Greetings,
This reminds me something the Late Father Taliaferro once said to me
during a conversation at SMU
about "polarizing figures", back biting, and in fighting within
Corporate Institutions, Fraternities, and
other Social Clubs or Groups.

Are you ready for to see his profound words of wisdom?

Are you sure you can handle it? If not turn back now.

This is your last warning, there is no more "spoiler space" after this one.

Okay, here it is:

Father Taliaferro F.R.C. gestured to me to tilt my head closer to him,
and in a low, slow, soft spoken voice, he said:

"Of all the groups, the Rosicrucian's are the worst."


So there you have. That's the memory flash back I have that continues
to be so true today, as it was when Tally spoke it in the 20th Century.

Regards,
Julie (not Bob)
Melanaigis
2008-05-18 12:39:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi Julie again,

I should add, the Lewis haters have researched your call handle, mine
Malcolms Northman's and everyone else who posts here. Personaly I find it an
absurd invasion of privacy. I don't care what name a person uses. But this
demand to know a person's name is a superstitious throwback to the practice
of goetia, the ability to control elementals and evil spirits. They think if
they have the name of their victim, they can control them. There are similar
ideas in the Egyptian Book of Coming Forth by Day. It was praciced by
several fraudulent rosicrucian groups and even some modern Christian groups
believe it.

This speaks volumes about the groups these people associate with, and their
level of enlightenment. What I resent is they are hell bent on lowering the
Lewis's to their level. They attack anyone who opposes them.

Keranos

-------------------------------------
Post by Julie Altswitch
Post by Melanaigis
Your goal, and the goal of the Lewis hating harpies is to silence any
voice but your own. <snip>
create a hostile environment you can keep anyone from posting who does
not agree with your opinion that Harvey Lewis was a great con man and
mountebank.
But you have never posted anything except attacks and accusations. None
of the Lewis hating harpies have any insight into Rosicrucianism or
mysticism. <snip>
again I have attracted some true seekers as well as the scum that lives
and works in the shadow.
Keranos
-------------------------------------------------
<snip>
Greetings,
This reminds me something the Late Father Taliaferro once said to me
during a conversation at SMU
about "polarizing figures", back biting, and in fighting within Corporate
Institutions, Fraternities, and
other Social Clubs or Groups.
Are you ready for to see his profound words of wisdom?
Are you sure you can handle it? If not turn back now.
This is your last warning, there is no more "spoiler space" after this one.
Father Taliaferro F.R.C. gestured to me to tilt my head closer to him,
"Of all the groups, the Rosicrucian's are the worst."
So there you have. That's the memory flash back I have that continues
to be so true today, as it was when Tally spoke it in the 20th Century.
Regards,
Julie (not Bob)
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Melanaigis
2008-05-18 12:22:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi Julie (not bob)

You make a good point; the reason the rosicrucian students are the worst is
that the exercises sensitise the spirit so it can percieve vibrations that
were unrecognized and undifferentiated before. Unfortunately this upsets the
personal sense of self, which is why they also recomend eliminating some
aspects of the selfish ego. The problem is exacerbated when people foolishly
mix amorc studies with the mind numbing idiocy of pseudo rosicrucian
schools, or half baked eastern schools.

Father Taliaferro did some fine work; I once had one of his audio tapes; it
was borrowed by a rosicrucian student and I could never get it back. I heard
Father Taliaferro had his own fight with RML and left the Order; don't know
if it's true. He was well respected but I never met him personaly.

Keranos
---------------------------------------
Post by Julie Altswitch
Post by Melanaigis
Your goal, and the goal of the Lewis hating harpies is to silence any
voice but your own. <snip>
create a hostile environment you can keep anyone from posting who does
not agree with your opinion that Harvey Lewis was a great con man and
mountebank.
But you have never posted anything except attacks and accusations. None
of the Lewis hating harpies have any insight into Rosicrucianism or
mysticism. <snip>
again I have attracted some true seekers as well as the scum that lives
and works in the shadow.
Keranos
-------------------------------------------------
<snip>
Greetings,
This reminds me something the Late Father Taliaferro once said to me
during a conversation at SMU
about "polarizing figures", back biting, and in fighting within Corporate
Institutions, Fraternities, and
other Social Clubs or Groups.
Are you ready for to see his profound words of wisdom?
Are you sure you can handle it? If not turn back now.
This is your last warning, there is no more "spoiler space" after this one.
Father Taliaferro F.R.C. gestured to me to tilt my head closer to him,
"Of all the groups, the Rosicrucian's are the worst."
So there you have. That's the memory flash back I have that continues
to be so true today, as it was when Tally spoke it in the 20th Century.
Regards,
Julie (not Bob)
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Julie Altswitch
2008-05-19 23:04:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Greetings,
I don't know anything about him and RML. When I last saw Father
Taliaferro between 1991 - 1992,
even as busy as he was with the St. Alcuin School, he would still be
down at Triangle lodge
maybe twice a year. Maybe he just liked the coffee :-).

Its a moot point, I wish I had spent more energy working with him. But
the demands of family,
work, and life gave me so many reasons to say I'll get to do it later.
Only for me to relocate,
and for him to pass through transition. It is still so true:

Defer not till the evening what the morning may accomplish. - Unto Thee
I Grant

Regards,
Julie ( not bob)
Post by Melanaigis
Hi Julie (not bob)
You make a good point; the reason the rosicrucian students are the worst is
that the exercises sensitise the spirit so it can percieve vibrations that
were unrecognized and undifferentiated before. Unfortunately this upsets the
personal sense of self, which is why they also recomend eliminating some
aspects of the selfish ego. The problem is exacerbated when people foolishly
mix amorc studies with the mind numbing idiocy of pseudo rosicrucian
schools, or half baked eastern schools.
Father Taliaferro did some fine work; I once had one of his audio tapes; it
was borrowed by a rosicrucian student and I could never get it back. I heard
Father Taliaferro had his own fight with RML and left the Order; don't know
if it's true. He was well respected but I never met him personaly.
Keranos
---------------------------------------
Post by Julie Altswitch
Post by Melanaigis
Your goal, and the goal of the Lewis hating harpies is to silence any
voice but your own. <snip>
create a hostile environment you can keep anyone from posting who does
not agree with your opinion that Harvey Lewis was a great con man and
mountebank.
But you have never posted anything except attacks and accusations. None
of the Lewis hating harpies have any insight into Rosicrucianism or
mysticism. <snip>
again I have attracted some true seekers as well as the scum that lives
and works in the shadow.
Keranos
-------------------------------------------------
<snip>
Greetings,
This reminds me something the Late Father Taliaferro once said to me
during a conversation at SMU
about "polarizing figures", back biting, and in fighting within Corporate
Institutions, Fraternities, and
other Social Clubs or Groups.
Are you ready for to see his profound words of wisdom?
Are you sure you can handle it? If not turn back now.
This is your last warning, there is no more "spoiler space" after this one.
Father Taliaferro F.R.C. gestured to me to tilt my head closer to him,
"Of all the groups, the Rosicrucian's are the worst."
So there you have. That's the memory flash back I have that continues
to be so true today, as it was when Tally spoke it in the 20th Century.
Regards,
Julie (not Bob)
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Ben Scaro
2008-05-17 13:25:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Mr Gleason,

If you thought that 'Cathari' and her allies had a case, why did you
run away from alt.amorc as fast as you feet could carry you once
their
harassment and dubious claims were exposed ?


You have never been able to explain this and it's why you are never
able to regain any credibility.


There is no 'entourage'. There never was.


To the madman, the sane world inevitably appears to be a conspiracy,
since he has no other way of accounting for why everyone else opposes
his
views.


Ben



- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Post by Melanaigis
Moreover he still has articles on his website written by Cathari, who
was the object of some of his vile insults; he derided her research but is
quite willing to freely use her labor on his behalf.
http://www.crcsite.org/dee1.htmThis was written by Cathari.
Ben Scaro
2008-05-17 14:01:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Mr Gleason,

If you thought that 'Cathari' and her allies had a case, why did you
turn tail and
run away from alt.amorc as fast as your feet could carry you once
their harassment and dubious claims were exposed ?


You have never been able to explain this and it's why you are never
able to regain any credibility.


There is no 'entourage'. There never was.


To the madman, the sane world inevitably appears to be a conspiracy,
since he has no other way of accounting for why everyone else opposes
his views.


Ben


- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -



- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Post by Melanaigis
Moreover he still has articles on his website written by Cathari, who
was the object of some of his vile insults; he derided her research but is
quite willing to freely use her labor on his behalf.
http://www.crcsite.org/dee1.htmThis was written by Cathari.
Ben Scaro
2008-05-15 19:08:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Well, mate, you imply you have only come across alt.amorc recently but
I'm sure I've heard your voice here before.

From a SamSpade search on your IP host address 70.77.5.2 I see your
web host is in Calgary, a bit like a poster on alt.amorc from Alberta
a while back in 2003 who sounded a heck of a lot like you.

He told us he had been in AMORC for 'over 25 years'. You in 2008, tell
us you have been in AMORC for 33 years.

I also see that like that poster, your one abiding interest in your
online postings is . . . Gary Stewart.

So, the sound of the postings, location, time period in AMORC and
online interest in Gary Stewart are all right.

Frater Michael Drummond, I presume ?

Now, Michael, now we've cleared up who you are . . . let's get down to
brass tacks.

You're not here to reconcile with anyone. You are here to find fault
with Stewart personally. You tried and failed to do this back in
2003, by quoting from court transcripts from 1993 as though they
applied to the 1990 events.

You claim Stewart is regurgitating old arguments and accusations.
Aren't you doing the same thing ?

You were doing it in 2003, and here you are doing it in 2008. Except
you're being sneakier about it, by attempting to change your identity
and hoping no one will notice.

Michael, the guy who caught you out back in 2003 advised you against
trying to mask viciousness with a pretence of humility.

I can but echo that, because it's your calling card.

Ben
Ben Scaro
2008-05-15 21:33:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by NORTHMAN
Fast forward! At the beginning of May I ran across this group,
alt.amorc.
Ben:

No. Let's not fast forward.

Now, matey, you imply you have only come across alt.amorc recently
but
I for one am damn sure I've heard your voice here before.

Let's rewind that that tape back to 2003.

From a SamSpade search on your IP host address 70.77.5.2 I see your
web host is in Calgary, a bit like a poster on alt.amorc from Alberta
a while back in 2003 who sounded a heck of a lot like you.

He told us he had been in AMORC for 'over 25 years'. You in 2008,
tell
us you have been in AMORC for 33 years.

I also see that like that poster, your one abiding interest in your
online postings is . . . Gary Stewart.

So, the sound of the postings, location, time period in AMORC and
online interest in Gary Stewart are all right.

Frater Michael Drummond, I presume ?

Now we've cleared up who you are . . . let's get down to
brass tacks.


You're not here to reconcile with anyone.

You *are* here to cast aspersions against Stewart. You tried and
failed to do this back in
2003.

As I recall you attempted this by quoting from court transcripts out
of context. I think you picked up on something from 1993 and tried to
argue as though it applied to the 1990 events.
Post by NORTHMAN
Post by NORTHMAN
Thanks again for your thoughtful analysis! I have said my piece (which
actually
includes some good advice) and I shall refrain from commenting again.
PP fr. N.
I told him that it was his own personal choice and therefore the right
thing
to do for now. Perhaps at a later time he may have decided to
investigate
some more; who knows?
Ben: Who knows ? Indeedy-dee. He may not even exist, after all.
Post by NORTHMAN
What is the first thing I see? GLS being engaged (STILL - after all
these
years! ) in regurgitating the old accusations, arguments and counter
arguments! He is obviously being baited by some for whatever reason.
Ben: You claim Stewart is regurgitating old arguments and
accusations.
What do you think you are doing, then ?
Post by NORTHMAN
It is too bad. Some of his responses to me make me wish that I had
refrained from posting a real experience and the disappointment
that  I genuinely feel with the obvious fact that his *hatchet* is far
from
having been buried.
Ben: It looks like you picked up that old hatchet in 2003, but it got
knocked pretty convincingly out of your hand back then. I guess now
you've picked it up again and are having another swipe in 2008 ?

Except you're being sneakier about it, by attempting to change your
identity
and hoping no one will notice.
Post by NORTHMAN
I may be taken to task again by GLS  for what I am posting
now.  It doesn't matter. He sees the world in his own way and so do I.
I have decided not to respond to any of the GLS matters on this site
in the
future and he will appreciate that, I am sure. Over and out!
Ben: Oh it doesn't matter whether GLS takes you to task. Anyone who
can smell a rat would do the same.

The guy who caught you out back in 2003 did advise you against trying
to mask viciousness with a pretence of humility.

I can but echo that, because it's not a very nice calling card.
Post by NORTHMAN
Greetings to you, Ben!
Ben: Greetings to you too, Michael.

Good luck with your visitor. Maybe he'll come calling by in another
five years?

Ben
Ben Scaro
2008-05-15 22:10:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by NORTHMAN
Fast forward! At the beginning of May I ran across this group,
alt.amorc.
Ben:

No. Let's not fast forward.

Now, matey, you imply you have only come across alt.amorc recently but
I for one am damn sure I've heard your voice here before.

Let's rewind that that tape back to 2003.

From a SamSpade search on your IP host address 70.77.5.2 I see your
web host is in Calgary, a bit like a poster on alt.amorc from Alberta
a while back in 2003 who sounded a heck of a lot like you.

He told us he had been in AMORC for 'over 25 years'. You in 2008, tell
us you have been in AMORC for 33 years.


I also see that like that poster, your one abiding interest in your
online postings is . . . Gary Stewart.


So, the sound of the postings, location, time period in AMORC and
online interest in Gary Stewart are all right. There can't be that
many senior, male AMORC 30+ year veterans in Calgary with an abiding
interest in Gary Stewart who write in the same style.


So . . . Frater Michael Drummond, I presume ?


Now we've cleared up who you are . . . let's get down to brass tacks.


You're not here to reconcile with anyone.


You *are* here to cast aspersions against Stewart. You tried and
failed to do this back in 2003.

As I recall you attempted this by quoting from court transcripts out
of context. I think you picked up on something from 1993 and tried to
argue as though it applied to the 1990 events.
Post by NORTHMAN
I told him that it was his own personal choice and therefore the right
thing
to do for now. Perhaps at a later time he may have decided to
investigate
some more; who knows?
Ben: Who knows ? Indeedy-dee. He may not even exist, after all.
Post by NORTHMAN
What is the first thing I see? GLS being engaged (STILL - after all
these
years! ) in regurgitating the old accusations, arguments and counter
arguments! He is obviously being baited by some for whatever reason.
Ben: You claim Stewart is regurgitating old arguments and accusations.
What do you think you are doing, then ?
Post by NORTHMAN
It is too bad. Some of his responses to me make me wish that I had
refrained from posting a real experience and the disappointment
that I genuinely feel with the obvious fact that his *hatchet* is far
from
having been buried.
Ben: It looks like you picked up that old hatchet in 2003, but it got
knocked pretty convincingly out of your hand back then. I guess now
you've picked it up again and are having another swipe in 2008 ?

Except you're being sneakier about it, by attempting to change your
identity and hoping no one will notice.
Post by NORTHMAN
I may be taken to task again by GLS for what I am posting
now. It doesn't matter. He sees the world in his own way and so do I.
I have decided not to respond to any of the GLS matters on this site
in the
future and he will appreciate that, I am sure. Over and out!
Ben: Oh it doesn't matter whether GLS takes you to task. Anyone who
can smell a rat would do the same.

The guy who caught you out back in 2003 did advise you against trying
to mask viciousness with a pretence of humility.

I can but echo that, because it's not a very nice calling card.
Post by NORTHMAN
Greetings to you, Ben!
Ben: Greetings to you too, Michael.

Good luck with your visitor. Maybe he'll come calling by in another
five years? If he does, don't go hunting for buried hatchets again,
ay ?

Ben
NORTHMAN
2008-05-16 03:48:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ben Scaro
Post by NORTHMAN
Fast forward! At the beginning of May I ran across this group,
alt.amorc.
No. Let's not fast forward.
Now, matey, you imply you have only come across alt.amorc recently but
I for one am damn sure I've heard your voice here before.
Let's rewind that that tape back to 2003.
From a SamSpade search on your IP host address 70.77.5.2 I see your
web host is in Calgary, a bit like a poster on alt.amorc from Alberta
a while back in 2003 who sounded a heck of a lot like you.
He told us he had been in AMORC for 'over 25 years'. You in 2008, tell
us you have been in AMORC for 33 years.
I also see that like that poster, your one abiding interest in your
online postings is . . . Gary Stewart.
So, the sound of the postings, location, time period in AMORC and
online interest in Gary Stewart are all right. There can't be that
many senior, male AMORC 30+ year veterans in Calgary with an abiding
interest in Gary Stewart who write in the same style.
So . . . Frater Michael Drummond, I presume ?
Now we've cleared up who you are . . . let's get down to brass tacks.
You're not here to reconcile with anyone.
You *are* here to cast aspersions against Stewart. You tried and
failed to do this back in 2003.
As I recall you attempted this by quoting from court transcripts out
of context. I think you picked up on something from 1993 and tried to
argue as though it applied to the 1990 events.
Post by NORTHMAN
I told him that it was his own personal choice and therefore the right
thing
to do for now. Perhaps at a later time he may have decided to
investigate
some more; who knows?
Ben: Who knows ? Indeedy-dee. He may not even exist, after all.
Post by NORTHMAN
What is the first thing I see? GLS being engaged (STILL - after all
these
years! ) in regurgitating the old accusations, arguments and counter
arguments! He is obviously being baited by some for whatever reason.
Ben: You claim Stewart is regurgitating old arguments and accusations.
What do you think you are doing, then ?
Post by NORTHMAN
It is too bad. Some of his responses to me make me wish that I had
refrained from posting a real experience and the disappointment
that I genuinely feel with the obvious fact that his *hatchet* is far
from
having been buried.
Ben: It looks like you picked up that old hatchet in 2003, but it got
knocked pretty convincingly out of your hand back then. I guess now
you've picked it up again and are having another swipe in 2008 ?
Except you're being sneakier about it, by attempting to change your
identity and hoping no one will notice.
Post by NORTHMAN
I may be taken to task again by GLS for what I am posting
now. It doesn't matter. He sees the world in his own way and so do I.
I have decided not to respond to any of the GLS matters on this site
in the
future and he will appreciate that, I am sure. Over and out!
Ben: Oh it doesn't matter whether GLS takes you to task. Anyone who
can smell a rat would do the same.
The guy who caught you out back in 2003 did advise you against trying
to mask viciousness with a pretence of humility.
I can but echo that, because it's not a very nice calling card.
Post by NORTHMAN
Greetings to you, Ben!
Ben: Greetings to you too, Michael.
Good luck with your visitor. Maybe he'll come calling by in another
five years? If he does, don't go hunting for buried hatchets again,
ay ?
Ben
Ben, relax. I am not Frater Michael Drummond and I have been in
Calgary
only once, many years ago when making a visit to
Drumheller, Alberta.

Fr. N.
Ben Scaro
2008-05-16 07:23:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
LOL. You certainly are, and you do yourself no credit by trying to
pretend otherwise, Michael.

A better title for this thread would be 'Bitter oldtimer tries and
fails to score points in stale feud'.

Ben
Post by NORTHMAN
Ben, relax. I am not Frater Michael Drummond and I have been in
Calgary
only once, many years ago when making a visit to
Drumheller, Alberta.
Fr. N.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Sid
2008-05-16 09:47:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
LOL.  You certainly are, and you do yourself no credit by trying to
pretend otherwise, Michael.
A better title for this  thread would be 'Bitter oldtimer tries and
fails to score points in stale feud'.
Ben
Post by NORTHMAN
Ben, relax. I am not Frater Michael Drummond and I have been in
Calgary
only once, many years ago when making a visit to
Drumheller, Alberta.
Fr. N.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Zitierten Text ausblenden -
- Zitierten Text anzeigen -
Come on guys we are on the web and I'm no IT expert:

I came up with the name Clinton Lee from Canada

ICQ Nr. 19866520 WorldWalker = Clinton Lee

Followed through and got:

Lee, Clinton
ABF Financial Group Inc Dr. Clinton Lee, B.Acc (Hons), MBA, DBA, CIM,
FMA, FCSI - Dr. Clinton Lee is President and CEO of ...
Lee, Clinton
Main Realty Ltd Clinton Lee - ... Email Address:
***@mainrealty.ca Phone: (604) 684-6000 Fax: (604) 678-8887
Lee, Clinton
Nexus Law Group LLP Clinton Lee General Counsel (Intellectual
Property) ***@peakproducts.com - Before joining Peak ...
Lee, Clinton
Phoenix Computer & Network Consulting No website references available.
Lee, Clinton
Smart & Biggar Clinton Lee, B.Sc. (Mech.Eng.), LL.B. -
Lee, Clinton
Southern City Tabernacle AME Zion Church 29, 2001) at Southern
Maryland Hospital in Clinton. - Born on Nov. 28, 1935, in
Salisbury, ...
Lee, Clinton
W. F. Brown Associates Limited Clinton Lee ... ***@consulting-
engineers.co.uk

Take your pick
Melanaigis
2008-05-17 00:19:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
The name of the newsgroup is alt.amorc. Instead of discussing history,
hermaneutics or personalities of rosicrucians or even wanna be rosicrucians
these postings are nothing but personal attacks and intrusive investigations
into an innocent poster's background instead. This is the same mentality
that motivated the Gestapo and Stasi in East Germany. I expect you people
are proud of yourselves and the current of thought you represent here.
This is truly evidence of a turf war designed to drive off and silence any
criticism of anti amorc groups or individuals. It is intended to support and
promote ideas never supported by either of the Lewis's.

Keranos

----------------------------------------------------------------------
LOL. You certainly are, and you do yourself no credit by trying to
pretend otherwise, Michael.
A better title for this thread would be 'Bitter oldtimer tries and
fails to score points in stale feud'.
Ben
Post by NORTHMAN
Ben, relax. I am not Frater Michael Drummond and I have been in
Calgary
only once, many years ago when making a visit to
Drumheller, Alberta.
Fr. N.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Zitierten Text ausblenden -
- Zitierten Text anzeigen -
Come on guys we are on the web and I'm no IT expert:

I came up with the name Clinton Lee from Canada

ICQ Nr. 19866520 WorldWalker = Clinton Lee

Followed through and got:

Lee, Clinton
ABF Financial Group Inc Dr. Clinton Lee, B.Acc (Hons), MBA, DBA, CIM,
FMA, FCSI - Dr. Clinton Lee is President and CEO of ...
Lee, Clinton
Main Realty Ltd Clinton Lee - ... Email Address:
***@mainrealty.ca Phone: (604) 684-6000 Fax: (604) 678-8887
Lee, Clinton
Nexus Law Group LLP Clinton Lee General Counsel (Intellectual
Property) ***@peakproducts.com - Before joining Peak ...
Lee, Clinton
Phoenix Computer & Network Consulting No website references available.
Lee, Clinton
Smart & Biggar Clinton Lee, B.Sc. (Mech.Eng.), LL.B. -
Lee, Clinton
Southern City Tabernacle AME Zion Church 29, 2001) at Southern
Maryland Hospital in Clinton. - Born on Nov. 28, 1935, in
Salisbury, ...
Lee, Clinton
W. F. Brown Associates Limited Clinton Lee ... ***@consulting-
engineers.co.uk

Take your pick


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Ben Scaro
2008-05-16 15:25:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Well. I apologise for wrongly identifying you then . . .

Ben
Post by NORTHMAN
Ben, relax. I am not Frater Michael Drummond and I have been in
Calgary
only once, many years ago when making a visit to
Drumheller, Alberta.
Fr. N.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
MalcolmO
2008-05-17 11:18:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
There's an echo in here. :)
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